Esther Perel on Why A.I. Intimacy Feels Safe but Isn’t Real
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This is The Opinions, a show that brings you a mix of voices from New York Times opinion. You've heard the news. Here's what to make of it.
I'm Nadja Spiegelman, and I'm a culture editor here for New York Times Opinion. And today I have the honor of being in conversation with a renowned psychotherapist and the host of the podcast, Where Should We Begin, Esther Perel. Hi. Hello, hello. People are using AI for so many things, from asking it to respond to their emails to telling it their most intimate secrets. I've been thinking about what the increasing prevalence of AI means for human relationships. In a study by Vantage Point, nearly a third of Americans have had some form of relationship with AI. Esther Perel has been a psychotherapist for nearly four decades. She has seen human connection adapt and survive through the onslaught of all kinds of technological advances.
From the onset of the internet, to dating apps, and now to this. An opportunity to speak with Esther is a dream for so many people I know. But I promise, I'm not just going to ask her how to heal from my most recent breakup. We're going to talk about AI, technology, love, and intimacy. Much less risk of breakup with AI. That's true. AI will never break up with me, and that's something I want to ask you about. Light suffering.
Yes.
But to start, I want to know, do you yourself use AI? Do you ever use it in your work or your personal life? Oh, yes.
It helps me think. And primarily, it helps me structure my thoughts. So I will use it when I have written a whole bunch of things and I want help with organization. I think that's really where I find it most useful in summarizing, in giving me highlights. And then you begin to see that AI speaks in a certain way. Three, three, three, four. Three, three, three, four. You know, it's like a choreography of information. And it likes to do threes. Three points around this, three points around that. Summary four. And at that moment, I think it's time to go take a book.
It's true, because there's certain things that work for our brains that are just so simple and straightforward, such as giving a list of things in three and then a summary. But if everyone starts to think like that and every idea is expressed like that, then we're cutting ourselves off from the richness of so much of the world. And so I'm curious about how you feel in general about people building relationships with AI. Are these relationships potentially healthy? Is there a possibility for a relationship with an AI to be healthy?
Yeah.
Maybe before we answer it in this yes or no, healthy, unhealthy, you know, I've been trying to think to myself, depending on how you define relationships, that will color your answer about, therefore, what does it mean when it's between a human and AI? But first, we need to define what goes on in relationships or what goes on in love. The majority of the time when we talk about love in AI or intimacy in AI, we talk about it as feelings. But love is more than feelings. Love is an encounter. It is an encounter that involves ethical demands, responsibility, that is embodied. That embodiment means that there is physical contact, gestures, rhythms, gaze, frottement. I mean, there's a whole range of physical experiences that are part of this relationship.
Can we fall in love with ideas? Yes. Do we fall in love with pets? Absolutely. Do children fall in love with a teddy bear?
What does Esther Perel think about AI and human relationships?
Of course. We can fall in love and we can have feelings for all kinds of things.
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