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The Prancing Pony Podcast

409 – Runnin’ Down a Ring

19 Apr 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?

0.436 - 34.966 Alan Sisto

Do you ever wish you could step away from the noise of the world for a From the inn on the lake to the downtown bookshop, from the farmer's market to a cabin in the woods, you'll hear warm, family-friendly stories designed to help you slow down, breathe easier, and feel at home. It's sort of like easy listening, but for fiction.

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35.728 - 60.181 Alan Sisto

It's a bit like a grown-up version of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, gentle, thoughtful, and full of everyday magic. It's from the creator of the internationally beloved podcast, Nothing Much Happens, and the series expands the village into a rich, ongoing world. It isn't about falling asleep. It's about comfort, calm, and the joy of a good story. If you're new, try episode 84.

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60.721 - 73.162 Alan Sisto

It's called All Animal Edition, and it is a delightful introduction to the village's quiet pace and fun whimsy. You can listen to Stories from the Village of Nothing Much wherever you get your podcasts.

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75.786 - 98.703 Unknown

Learning English is hard. That's why I make easy stories in English, where you can have fun while you learn. You can listen to stories full of action, romance, and mystery. Each episode, I tell stories for beginner, intermediate and advanced learners, and there's a story for every mood.

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98.803 - 107.224 Unknown

Whether you want something to wake you up or relax before going to bed, Easy Stories in English is the podcast for you.

118.409 - 128.805 Alan Sisto

Good evening, little masters, and welcome to episode 409 of the Prancing Pony podcast, where all my ordinary spies and emissaries can bring me no tidings.

129.466 - 148.83 Matt

That's because my own servants are waylaying or misleading yours. Folks, pull up a bench in the common room and join us. I'm Matt, the Nerd of the Rings, and I'm here with the man of the West, whose arm is not yet long enough to reach me in the Midwest, Alan Sisto.

149.431 - 161.123 Alan Sisto

Guess I'll have to conceal my wrath and bide my time. Folks, join us as Gollum proves ultimately indomitable, and we begin our four-part look at the hunt for the ring from Unfinished Tales.

161.238 - 180.951 Matt

Folks, no matter whether you came to Middle Earth through the books, the films, the TV show, or something else, each of you is welcome here in our common room. The Prancing Pony podcast continues in our 10th season of reading and talking our way through Middle Earth with conversations, digressions, and even speculations.

Chapter 2: How does Gollum's capture influence the plot?

549.818 - 550.821 Alan Sisto

They certainly do.

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550.861 - 559.288 David Smith

Who is your favorite Hobbit? Again, you know, that varies. I would have to say, you know what? I'm going to go off on a limb here. Rory Brandybuck.

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559.977 - 561.659 Alan Sisto

Oh, okay.

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562.52 - 579.283 David Smith

I like that. He's very astute. Kind of laid back, he was running Buckland and let his son go off, gallivanting about with no certain return. Because I suspect that Mary had cleared it with his dad before he took off.

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579.304 - 585.512 Alan Sisto

Oh, yeah. I would imagine he'd almost have to, yeah. Pippin, on the other hand, probably didn't really need to clear it.

585.532 - 589.157 David Smith

He just went. And he also has a fondness for fine wine.

589.728 - 598.14 Alan Sisto

That is true. That is certainly true. All right, David, who's your favorite author or what's your favorite book other than Tolkien?

598.281 - 601.172 David Smith

You know, I think I would have to be Patrick O'Brien.

601.844 - 606.911 Alan Sisto

Okay. And for those who might not know him, what's he known for, for writing?

Chapter 3: What role do Sauron's spies play in the story?

707.095 - 711.14 Alan Sisto

All right. Man, those are some great answers, David. Thank you for joining us today. I really appreciate it.

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711.28 - 711.641 Matt

Thank you.

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711.921 - 717.508 Alan Sisto

We have enjoyed having you here in the North Wing, but it is time for us to head back into the common room and join the rest of the listeners.

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717.64 - 721.544 Matt

Yeah. Thanks again, David. Really appreciate you taking the time and joining us.

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722.124 - 722.204 Alan Sisto

Yep.

722.224 - 723.065 Matt

We'll see you next time.

723.085 - 726.248 Alan Sisto

Okay. Thank you. And now we return you to the podcast in progress.

728.63 - 741.261 Matt

It's always nice to sit down with our listeners. Glad David could join us there. Well, the ring isn't going to find itself. Shall we start Alan the hunt for the ring? I don't know if we give the ring enough time.

741.321 - 741.722 Alan Sisto

It might.

Chapter 4: How do the Nazgul's actions affect the narrative?

1046.542 - 1055.733 Alan Sisto

Nine times out of ten, it's one of the hobbits. you know, when, when it's just Frodo and Sam, it's usually Sam's perspective. Otherwise it's usually Pippin's perspective. Yeah, exactly.

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1055.773 - 1057.715 Matt

We've talked about that many times.

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1057.735 - 1082.001 Alan Sisto

Yeah, exactly. And it's a very, it's a very useful method that Tolkien uses because even when like Gimli is retelling the story of the paths of the dead, it's Gimli retelling it, not Aragorn. It's the least knowledgeable of the characters. And it's always that way. And I think given that this story becomes untellable with that sort of, of style, because, And only the ultimate narrator knows this.

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1082.181 - 1093.045 Alan Sisto

Only the person who can see all and is standing above the story can tell you, oh, this happened and this piece got moved here at this time and then this happened. And then that's just not how Tolkien tells his stories.

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1093.143 - 1103.655 Matt

Yeah. And I also think, like, when would this naturally be told? And it would probably be at the Council of Elrond, which is already really long.

1103.675 - 1119.353 Alan Sisto

Really long. And we actually, that's the only place where we get any mention of the events of this, right? Aragorn retelling some of his bit. So with that behind us, let's go and begin the story proper, which begins, the text tells us, in 3017, when Gollum is captured in Mordor.

1119.333 - 1142.151 Matt

And we already have something to resolve here because in the Tale of Years, Appendix B, we read for the year 3017 that Gollum is released from Mordor, not captured by Mordor. And if you're thinking, well, he could have been captured by Mordor early in the year and released later in the year. Well, stick around for a moment.

1142.131 - 1163.689 Alan Sisto

We'll definitely talk through that. In fact, coming back to the tale of years, for 3009, so eight years before that, it tells us that Gandalf and Aragorn renew their hunt for Gollum at intervals during the next eight years, talking from 3009 to 3017. searching in the vales of Anduin, Mirkwood, and Rhovanion to the confines of Mordor.

1163.709 - 1169.716 Alan Sisto

At some time during these years, Gollum himself ventured into Mordor and was captured by Sauron.

Chapter 5: What weaknesses do the Nazgul have?

3613.669 - 3618.534 Alan Sisto

It is interesting to think of the weaknesses of the Nazgul.

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3618.554 - 3628.704 Matt

Yeah. Right. That's, that's also something I think gets, gets lost a lot of times, you know, especially in adaptation where it's like, they seem like they're all powerful boogeymen.

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3628.724 - 3629.104 Alan Sisto

Right.

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3629.184 - 3644.541 Matt

Yeah. The interesting thing that, you know, you can, you can kind of miss you. You do get a hint of it. I would say in the adaptation when Frodo puts on the ring and it's like, yes, Oh, that's actually making you more visible to them. That's not at all doing what you want it to do.

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3644.561 - 3655.356 Alan Sisto

Yeah, it's the opposite of what you want. Yeah, it is a tough thing to convey, I think, in adaptation. I mean, unless you have them crossing a river, but we'll get to that later.

3656.357 - 3661.504 Matt

Well, now it's time to do yet another reading. Shall we dive on here, Alan?

3662.615 - 3692.014 Alan Sisto

The Lord of Morgul therefore led his companions over Anduin, unclad and unmounted and invisible to eyes, and yet a terror to all living things that they passed near. It was maybe on the first day of July that they went forth. They passed slowly and in stealth through Anorian and over the Entwade and so into the Wold, and rumor of darkness and a dread of men knew not what went before them.

3692.753 - 3713.158 Alan Sisto

they reached the west shores of Anduin, a little north of Sarn Gebir, as they had tristed, and there received horses and raiment that were secretly ferried over the river. This was, it is thought, about the 17th of July. Then they passed northward, seeking for the Shire, the land of the halflings.

3714.472 - 3728.987 Alan Sisto

About the 22nd of July, they met their companions, the Nazgul of Dol Guldur, in the field of Celebrant. There they learned that Gollum had eluded both the orcs that recaptured him and the elves that pursued them, and had vanished.

Chapter 6: How do the Nazgul travel undetected?

3729.968 - 3748.478 Alan Sisto

They were told also by Camul that no dwelling of halflings could be discovered in the vales of Anduin, and that the villages of the stewards by the Gladden had long been deserted. But the lord of Morgul, seeing no better counsel, determined still to seek northward, hoping maybe to come upon Gollum as well as to discover the Shire.

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3749.421 - 3773.397 Alan Sisto

That this would prove to be not far from the hated land of Lorien seemed to him not unlikely, if it was not indeed within the fences of Galadriel. But the power of the white ring he would not defy, nor enter yet into Lorien. Passing therefore between Lorien and the mountains, the nine rode ever on into the north, and terror went before them and lingered behind them.

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3774.139 - 3797.891 Alan Sisto

But they did not find what they sought, nor learn any news that availed them. At length they returned, but the summer was now far waned, and the wrath and fear of Sauron was mounting. When they came back to the wold, September had come, and there they met messengers from Barad-dûr, conveying threats from their master that filled even the Morgul lord with dismay.

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3798.712 - 3807.861 Alan Sisto

For Sauron had now learned of the words of prophecy heard in Gondor, and the going forth of Boromir, of Saruman's deeds, and the capture of Gandalf.

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3809.461 - 3814.796 Matt

All right. So now we get to the beginning of the actual hunt for the ring.

Chapter 7: What challenges do the Nazgul face in their hunt?

3815.096 - 3822.677 Matt

The Witch King and his six buddies crossing the river on July 1st on foot, though. And, well...

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3822.995 - 3845.442 Alan Sisto

naked yeah on foot and naked that's that's an interesting way to be fortunately they are also transparent interesting way to travel yeah well you know you never have to pick up your bag at baggage claim if that's how you travel it's true there's some advantages to that it does get a little cold on the plane and the worst part is getting arrested well getting a

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3847.109 - 3855.634 Alan Sisto

I'm thinking of the Nazgul who nobody knows that they're unclad. But the problem is somebody thinks, oh, that aisle seat is empty. I'll just sit. Wow.

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3857.032 - 3866.124 Matt

I was going to say the one thing it makes more convenient, I guess, is if you get flagged for a TSA manual check.

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3866.144 - 3886.992 Alan Sisto

Exactly. Special investigation. Yeah. All right. So being naked and on foot though, that keeps them completely invisible, right? We know it's the clothes that give them shape and they can't exactly hide horses. So they got to go on foot, but they do still have this problem of a wide ranging area of effect that called Cause Terror.

3887.512 - 3897.926 Matt

Slowly and carefully, they head through Anorian, then north over the Entwade and into the Wold of Rohan, terrifying everyone that they get near.

Chapter 8: How does Saruman's position change in this segment?

3898.326 - 3904.294 Alan Sisto

That's the thing. I mean, how do you hide yourself when you have this massive effect on everything that you're near?

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3905.135 - 3915.709 Alan Sisto

They reach their meeting point, and this is interesting. It's said to be a little north of Sarn Gebiot. Now, remember that Osgiliath is the only place south of the Undeeps where they could have crossed the Anduin.

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3915.689 - 3925.982 Matt

which does somewhat beg the question, why not stay on the east side of the Anduin, meet the Dol Guldur crew near the Undeeps, then cross there?

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3926.643 - 3947.773 Alan Sisto

I have to say that makes a lot more sense. You know, it's safer for them. They're not going to cause terror in lands where nobody is. The Dol Guldur side is already on the right side of the river. They're on the east side. So you don't have to worry about them crossing the river. It just seems to be a lot more sense to have them stay on the east side and then cross together at the Undeeps.

3947.833 - 3971.04 Alan Sisto

But anyway, they're the Nazgul. They're not always the brightest. They are really strong. But quick aside, by the way, on the use of the word tryst here. Because in modern English, tryst typically referring to a secret romantic rendezvous, right? But the word actually dates back to 1200 and the word rendezvous Triste, T-R-I-S-T-E, meaning appointed station.

3971.521 - 3990.866 Alan Sisto

And that's from an old French variant that meant waiting place or appointed station where hunters await game. And it's from the same Proto-Indo-European root that we see in words like troth, like they plighted their troth, as well as trust, truth, and true. And I just thought that was really something we should look at real quick.

3991.307 - 3996.253 Alan Sisto

I thought the hunting origin is particularly fitting given what they're doing here.

3996.453 - 4001.382 Matt

Yeah, given that's the title of this particular section of the book.

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