Show notes
Selling a company is the entrepreneurs' dream goal, but what to do after the exit is daunting. Some sides say to stay away from building another business right away while others say it's important to keep a toe in the pool at all times. Today's episode is about what to do (or not do) after you sell your business. We discuss drive, purpose, and the type of work business owners want to do once they achieve financial freedom. Today's guest, Nate Ginsburg, dabbled in a variety of entrepreneurial ventures before he got into Amazon and FBA about 4 years ago. About a year into his business, he took in a partner and sold off about half of the company to him. In 2018, they sold the US side of the business to a Chinese investor. When he sold the business and made a hefty profit, Nate found himself questioning what he wanted to do next. Today we get into the many ways he is fulfilling his need to always be doing something, both personally and professionally. Episode Highlights: The history of Nate's entrepreneurial journey. The trajectory of his Amazon FBA business and how the sale came about. How Nate and his partner structured the relatively atypical sale. Nate's motivation for selling. The importance of free cash flow in a business. How Nate moved on from the sale to pursue new things. What brought about the new deals he's involved in and what's next for Nate. The importance of assembling the right team in moving your business forward. How the helping and connecting pieces of what Nate is doing these days can play into future deals. Focusing on the big picture in your business role – the recurring notion of working on your business rather than in your business. Transcription Joe: So you and I had a chance a few weeks ago to hang with Ryan Daniel Moran and talk to him a little bit. We had him on this podcast and one of the things that he talked about was what to do after you sell your business. He talked a little bit about planning in advance but his advice was take some time off; don't do anything business wise and that was his mistake looking back. You just had Nate Ginsburg on the podcast to talk about that very same thing if I am right … correct? Mark: Yeah that's right. So Nate has an interesting story. He sold his business last year; not through us. It wasn't through a broker. It was a deal that just kind of worked out on its own. But he found himself after that sale questioning what he wanted to do next. It was a lot of this … you're so used to all this hustle, hustle, hustle, and the next thing you know you're just kind of left there wondering what is my purpose? What do I enjoy? What I want to be doing next? And so he really went on kind of an almost spiritual journey here of really evaluating how does he want to spend his days, how does he want to spend his time. And he came to the conclusion that he really wants to be someone who shares in helping other entrepreneurs and then also doing some investing as well. So this episode has a lot of layers to it definitely talking a little bit about general entrepreneurship and that drive that we all have to do things and that hustle. But also what do you do when that drive kind of dries up or when you aren't having that in front of you or maybe you're hustling for all the wrong reasons. So that's definitely the topic in this but we also have this interesting wrinkle in here that he's bought two businesses since then. One of the businesses he didn't buy entirely. He bought just a portion of it and is more of an investor. And I know a lot of our buyers they ask us about that. Do you have deals where an owner wants to stay the yacht and he's successfully done this before on deals. We've talked a little bit about that as well. So a lot of different layers to this, if you like just general entrepreneurship discussion that's really where this kind of falls into of entrepreneurship drive, finding your true purpose in life and your work, and purposeful work, and then finally getting into some more creative deals when it comes to acquisitions. Joe: I think it's always great to hear people's stories and how they did it. It may not always directly relate to your life and what you're doing and what your goals are but you can always take bits and pieces of it and leave the rest behind. So let's go to it. Mark: Yeah absolutely. Let's go. Mark: Nate thank you so much for joining me. Nate: Thank you for having me. Hello from sunny Los Angeles. Mark: And now you're actually just up in my neck of the woods up here in Minnesota and normally I would tell anyone hey if you're up here in Minnesota up in the Twin Cities reach out. You did and I happen to not be here this past week so we missed each other. Nate: Yeah we missed each other but I'm glad to connect now. And yeah Minneapolis is my hometown. I was back … I was in New York for the summer and then attended Burning Man and then after Burning Man I went to Minneapolis to hang with the family and kind of decompress and now I'm on the road again in California and then making my way back towards Asia where I spend a good chunk of the winter. Mark: All right pretty cool. I've been following you on Facebook for a little bit now and I'm just kind of looking at some of your Facebook posts especially from your … I think you call it the summer of hustle 2018 New York City. And you talked in a few of your posts about your eagerness just to share some of this stuff that you're doing as an entrepreneur. And so I thought hey if you want to share we have an audience. Let's talk, let's start sharing. Nate: Yeah. Mark: I saw one of the images of you doing a photo shoot, a yoga photo shoot in the middle of the street. Nate: Yeah. I mean … so after I sold the business last year and you know after that I had a lot of these questions around like what to do next and what's important and what direction do I really want to be going in? And that's where some of this … it's got all these questions of what am I good at, what's my unique ability, all these kind of things and really trying to uncover and understand what I'm best at. How I can add value, what I enjoy, and yes some of the things that I've … I mean not that this is totally new or not like new information but just useful to kind of like specify or articulate is that I do … I really enjoy sharing, I enjoy teaching, I enjoy helping others. And so that's in part of the Facebook stuff of trying to share more and post more and connect and help and inspire. The yoga stuff I'm also really into yoga. I've been practicing pretty regularly for the last five or so years. And I was hanging out with a friend of mine in New York who … I mean she has an amazing personal brand and Instagram following of 400,000 people. And she was just kind of encouraging again like you should do this and in the trying to stay with pushing yourself to do things even if they're a little bit scary. Yeah, I ended up doing this photo shoot in New York. I got some cool pictures in front of the middle of the street doing head stands. It was a little bit scary but also fun and people seem to like it. Mark: It's pretty fun. It's fun to kind of troll around and take a look at what you've been doing in the past there and like you said pushing yourself which is always fun to talk to people that have been doing that. Let's back up a little bit, let's talk about selling your business last year. Was that the first business that you owned or how many businesses have your owned before you sold that business? Nate: Yeah so that's the first somewhat significant one I've … over the last six or whatever years I kind of dabbled in a variety of things. I have actually sold a few small content websites. This was years ago but nothing that significant. And then I got into that business which was e-commerce, Amazon FBA. I guess I got into it three years ago now or four years ago or something and yeah that was the biggest, I made the most money, built into the biggest operation. So then that was the I guess most notable sale but I guess actually though just kind of back up I've kind of sold that business twice. And what I mean is I started the business myself three or four years ago and then about a year in I took on an investor partner. My friend and now business partner Travis. So then I sold him 49% of that business which was I guess kind of that type of a sale and then a year later is when we had the opportunity to … again we didn't sell kind of the whole thing. We sold the USA distribution side which is actually the one that was making basically all the money. And so we sold that which was for just under a million which is kind of what I was kind of posting more or sharing about but then are actually still operating the EU side of that business which at the time that we sold wasn't at a place or wouldn't make sense to kind of include in the sale but now hopefully going into next year or maybe Q1 or Q2 next year hopefully we'll be looking to sell that remaining side. Mark: So how did that work as far as selling just a portion of that? I mean usually, you have these non-compete agreements in place. People typically want you out of the industry that you're in. So as the owner you know that business … that product really well. Usually, a buyer wants to take over the business and have room to expand and especially with Amazon, it seems like international expansion makes the most sense. So how did you guys … without getting into details you can't get into how did you structure that? And what was sort of the appeal of that? Nate: Sure. So it's a good question and yeah I guess I'd say our sale was somewhat not so typical and I guess there's a lot of different ways that sales wouldn't be typical but yeah ours was not … this wasn't like oh we want to … like oh, let's sell this business and let's put together a prospectus and let's contact brokers and contact the buyer. Ours was like … I mean I was catching up with my business partner Travis. I was in Vietnam. It was in the spring of last year. I'm catching up with Travis and so Travis had sold a couple of businesses himself to this big Chinese Amazon selling company and they have software and a big operation. And so Travis had sold some of his businesses to them before. And we were talking and catching up and he just kind of casually mentioned they might be interested in buying more businesses would you want to sell? And long story short I was interested. Three days later I was on a plane to China to meet with them to try to make out this … work out this deal. And yeah we ended up coming to an agreement for the USA side. And it's kind of interesting and I mean some of this is speculative. I mean I don't know some of these things for sure as to like what their motivations were but that business was rolled up or had some sort of a merger acquisition with a big publicly traded company shortly following their acquisition of my business or the USA side of my business. And so I think that they were just trying to acquire businesses to build up and show more revenue and sales for their … looking forward to their acquisition merger roll up whatever kind of thing. And so yeah that's … I mean again I don't know this for sure but that is kind of my theory or my why I think they were kind of interested which kind of explained the atypical nature and kind of structure of how it played out. Mark: That's fascinating; right place, right time, and right connections as well. What was your motivation? I mean when Travis came to you and said would you be interested in selling. Did you always plan to sell or was it kind of like he has you know like … it actually doesn't sound that bad or— Nate: Yeah. Mark: How… why the yes? Nate: So in my experience with e-commerce and especially with a lot of these Amazon FBA businesses … and this is also a motivation for why I sold half of the business to Travis previously and then selling this is like you can do some really impressive revenue numbers and profit numbers. And I say profit in quotes because your profit is generated or on the books it looks like revenue minus cost of goods minus expenses. And let's say we were selling a lot; 100,000 a month $150,000 a month and then our profit would just say 30% of that or something which is sizable but at the end of every month it's not like the bank account was going up by X thousand dollars each month. The money comes in it needs to go back out for more inventory or you're launching a new product and that comes out of pocket. And so when the business really started to take off our sales was growing but my bank account was still not growing like I wanted to. And I was … the reason I guess for those businesses was very financially motivated. Like I'm trying to run this business to fund my life and build some security into my finances. We were selling a lot of stuff and that's great and we had a lot of profit but it wasn't like the bank accounts were just kind of stacking. And so with a business like that my kind of thought is that where you really stack your bank account is from some sort of sale opportunity. And that's what happened when I sold the half of the business to Travis previously that brought in a bunch of money into my bank account and then again selling the half to the Chinese company got money into my bank account. And so yes so that was some of the motivation and yeah I think we just had a good opportunity. I mean there's a lot of opportunities certainly still there was and is selling on Amazon but there's also different risks and challenges and I thought that this was a good opportunity to take some more chips off the table and then parlay that as like another step up and step forward for my life career allow me to pursue newer and different and better opportunities. Mark: Yeah and I want to move on to some of that and sort of what happened after but I want to stop real quick and make a point because I think you make a really good point here. You said something that I think people need to keep in mind when you're looking at a P&L for any business for sale specifically an e-commerce business that's growing. The profit does not equal capital. It is not the same thing. So if you're looking at a business that is growing and has $150,000 of profit that's not necessarily the cash flow; it's not necessarily 150,000 in positive cash flow. That's a problem that we see a lot with people growing and when they get to a certain point the same reasons as what you faced you know you've been putting in the hustle, hustle, hustle, the business is growing, in some ways it would almost be nice if it leveled off because then you're not … you just aren't actually seeing or realize some of that profit as opposed to consistently reinvesting into the company. Nate: And just to kind of add on that I learned … so I had an opportunity to attend this really awesome entrepreneurship summer camp program put on by Simon Black and the guys at Sovereign Man and one of the … I mean I've learned a ton from them but one of the points that they hammered home which has really stuck with me is when you're looking at a business the importance of free cash flow and like free cash flow being really the only thing that is important; it's not revenue, it's not profit, it's free cash flow that's what's going to pay back to investors. That's what's going to actually go into your pocket. And yeah my Amazon businesses had horrible free cash flow and so having an opportunity to sell that and get the cash part of that motivation. And then also the focus on free cash flow has really been a big driver for the investments that I had ended up making since then. Mark: Alright we're going to get to those but I want to talk a little bit about the post-sale situation that you find yourself in. Because I tell people this all the time when they're selling especially their first business; the first thing that's really taken off and that's have a plan for after the sale. I know when I sold my first business my plan was look I did it once. I was young. I was like 25, 26, maybe a little bit older than that but it doesn't matter how old I was, I was pretty stupid because I looked at it and I'm like oh my gosh this is so easy. I tell people how to start businesses. I tell people how to make money and everyone goes off and does it. I was able to do it with this company and then at that first year I struggled. I couldn't find anything that was actually going to really take hold. I didn't know what I wanted to do. You had sort of the same situation, not necessarily struggling in finding a new business but kind of understanding purpose. Is that fair? Nate: Yeah I know definitely. I mean it's crazy the last year or so after selling that business. A lot of new opportunities and also challenges come up and you've had … it's like for a short while after the sale at least for me it's like ah like everything's great and you're just happy this happened. But then I guess pretty quickly after at least for me I can only … I mean I love yoga, I love being healthy and having a healthy lifestyle and that's great but you can only at least for me that's only a part of life. And after a period I just get really antsy if I'm not being productive working towards something and figuring out what that is, what's the next direction? In a lot of ways, it's like starting over. And so yeah, that was a lot of what kind of followed the sale and what I … so like I'm a people person. I love people. All the best things in my life and opportunities and friends and … it has all happened because of people that I know or had the opportunity to meet and connect with. And so what I tried to do or did is just meet and talk to as many people as possible. And that's been a big and still is like a driver of … I knew like okay well like I've got more time and I've got more money and I've got more kind of options and so I'm just going to try to meet and connect and talk with as many people as I can. So I went to a bunch of events. I was literally flying around the world meeting up with friends in different places and meeting new people and getting different perspectives. And yeah that was actually something that towards the end … so I sold the business in it was like May. Early May was when it was finalized. I got the money and then a lot of that summer I was flying around. I attended a couple of different events. And by the end of the summer, one of the things I kind of concluded was … it kind of like was a confidence in pursuing more investments. So I want to and can get involved as an investor and that's what kind of started this deep dive into just what does that even mean, what are the different structures, how can things be structured, where do you find deals, how do you make deals happen. And so that was … yeah, I guess from talking to and meeting a lot of these different people I was kind of able to realize that yes this is a direction that I want to go down. And also it's just like part of it is confidence of just okay yeah I can do this. I can add value. And yeah, I guess as a first time, investing in a business I don't know that was definitely something for me. I'm just kind of … you know the confidence of it no like you can do this. Mark: All right let's jump into that because I think that's going to be the heart of what we really want to talk about here as well and that is investing in companies. I mean so much of what we do at Quiet Light Brokerage is all about these asset deals. Or if somebody's selling they're selling 100% of the company, the business transaction closes, you got one buyer, you have one seller; nice, clean, simple. It sounds to me like you're doing something a little bit different than that though. You're investing in companies as opposed to buying a whole or maybe I shouldn't assume and let you explain a little bit of what you're doing. Nate: Yeah so it's … I guess it's ended up being kind of a combination of both. And I'm not … I think it has benefits of both and I kind of I guess in the two deals that I've done the last year have … one of them has been invested in and the other one has been bought outright. But in all of them I have partners. And so I invested with Travis who invested in me. We've invested in a business last winter and then also again with another partner we bought outright a business. I mean for me getting involved in a new business it's a lot of … a lot of this kind of came down to again what am I good at, what do I like, why am I doing this. And with the first business, I guess it's like a similar kind of a checklist of things of I want to get into a business where I can personally have an impact. I'm not looking to be a passive investor. I'm also definitely not looking to micromanage but I want to be able to help push the business forward and give my capital the biggest chance and boost of having a good return. And so by investing in a business which was like the first one my kind of role is I mean I have somewhat regular communication with the founder and we hop on calls whether it's every week or every other week and kind of help identify the priorities and make connections and make intros. And so that's something that I thought that I'd be able to have an impact while not … I didn't want to buy myself a job. And with any of these things that's not what I'm looking for. I'm happy to be involved and I want to be involved but I'm also not trying to buy myself a job. And then kind of with the more recent business that we bought outright really like part of the motivation and thinking behind getting involved with that business was that being really intentional about the role that I was going to play. And with that business, I knew I had people on my team from some of the other businesses in the e-com stuff that I knew that I could bring over to kind of plug in to handle some of these different parts of the business that I didn't want to or wouldn't be very suited to handle. And so even though we bought outright the business it wasn't like I was just stepping in myself to kind of operate it. And [inaudible 00:22:17.2] any of the businesses like what I … one of the ways I think that I can add the most value is by kind of assembling the team that is able to run it. And that's something even with the business that I invested in I've been pretty active or my team has been pretty active in hiring new people for the different roles as well as for the business that we actually bought that was really what my role has been is like getting the right people in place to manage their different … the things that they're better at than I am which then allows me to … I mean I'm more involved with that business than the one that we invested in because Brent is the operator of that and I'm still … I guess let's say like CEO but I'm not … my role is still more like finding the right people to do their job and helping them as opposed to me more like in the weeds in the operations. Mark: So it's with the business that you invested in. I have this question from buyers all the time you know do you have people who want to sell just a portion of their company? They're looking for sort of that role. Do you mind if I ask how you came across this deal? Was this through a broker or a—? Nate: Yeah so that one was through a broker. We bought it on Empire Flippers and was totally … it came out of nowhere honestly. So another rule that I've learned from investing or it's maybe the cardinal rule is like you make your money when you buy not when you sell. And one thing when I was kind of decided that I wanted to invest or buy a business and one of the first things that we started to do was look at all the brokerages. I was looking at yours as well as … just like trying to see what the deals look like. And one thing that we found is that the deals that are … generally, if you find them on a brokerage they're fairly valued and as would make sense. And not that I'm … I'm not trying to rip anybody off at all but as a buyer I'm looking for the opportunity to buy a good discount or get involved at a discount. Again you make your money when you buy not when you sell. And so that had kind of turned me to look elsewhere for investment opportunities which led to the first investment. And then my business partner Travis, this was a couple of months ago sent this listing. It's a cryptocurrency publishing website and it was selling at … I mean it was a relatively young site. It was only making money for six months or so which had the multiple low. It was selling at a 22X monthly … last six months monthly profit which I know for an average website business a 3X multiple is somewhat standard. So we were getting it at less than 2X multiple and so that got our attention. And this was listed and then I hopped on a call with the seller two days later and then there were other interested buyers so we just had to move fast and pull the trigger and bought it. So yeah that's what kind of happened with that one. It just kind of fell into our lap and we thought it was a good opportunity and had to act fast. Mark: Yeah I like the saying that you make money when you buy when you're investing, you don't make when you sell. That's absolutely right. For the seller that was looking to … that you just invested in was he actively looking for that or was it something that you suggested? Nate: Yeah so that one, so kind of back to what I was saying when I first got started interested in buying or investing in businesses the first place that we were looking was the easiest place to look; all these brokerages. And again there's a lot of great businesses and they're generally pretty fairly priced and then one of the things I realize is that if I wanted to get the best deals or getting things where I would have opportunities that were not to get into a bidding war with other people I had to find those deals myself. And so that's kind of what started then. I started like … and part of that all leading into sharing more and sharing my story and going on podcasts and just kind of being intentional to try to develop and build a personal brand so that … so I was doing some of these things last fall and that's what kind of got the conversation started with Brent and the Amazon advertising business that eventually led to us investing in it. So it wasn't … he wasn't looking for … looking to sell, looking for partners. It was like I was kind of starting to share this and we previously had a relationship. I don't remember exactly how it was brought up. Maybe it was just like hey, by the way, I/we might be interested in investing and partnering up and he was like yeah I would be interested in continuing that discussion with you and Travis to get involved and so that's what led to that. It wasn't … they certainly weren't actively seeking investment. It was more like we … yes, somehow the dots were able to connect with us kind of putting it out there and kind of starting that conversation. Mark: Yeah that's pretty cool. I know there are probably a lot of buyers out there listening and being slightly jealous that you were able to pull a deal like that off. What does the future hold for you are you going to continue to buy or are you looking for more opportunities to invest? Nate: Yeah definitely. I mean it's kind of … so it's come together a little bit in the last couple of months or so but I will say that I … well as a kind of a side tangent personally I got very sidetracked by crypto last winter as many people did and— Mark: Back when it was trading at high levels right? Nate: Right. I mean it was exciting and so when I sold the business last spring I dumped a pretty good chunk of that into bitcoin, ethereum. I was starting and that kind of got me into ICO's over the last summer which was early enough before the big run up in November-December that come December-January I was way up. Unfortunately, of course, I didn't cash out at the top but from that then I kind of like … I mean I was kind of going in this direction and I had made this investment in Brent's business and was generally enjoying that. I'm trying to put myself out there more and find more opportunities. And then this crypto stuff spiked and I kind of put everything on hold. I'm like alright I'm diving in here. I started going to events and flying all around trying to see what's going on. Then fast forward a couple of months and the market was not where it was in January and some of those same kind of questions came back up of like is this what I want to be doing? What do I want to be doing? What's important? And it was kind of again like revisiting a lot of these things in direction and what do I want to do. And then this new site became available so we kind of jumped on that. And then the last couple of months have been … I'm kind of happily busy working on that and it gives me stuff to do. And some of the stuff that I've learned is that I'm certainly happiest when I have a project. And it's not … I mean money is important obviously but it's not just about having as much money. And time is important but you don't want to have all the time. It's important. You want to have enough free time. I think balance is really important but also having the balance towards productive work and having a project that you can work on and make progress and connect with people and be excited about is a really … like I've realized is maybe the most important factor for just my personal happiness. Anyway so that site came around and I had the opportunity to get involved and I have been working on that and getting the people and pieces in place to keep that moving forward. And that's kind of solidified what I see as my direction of continuing to find … putting myself out there, sharing more, hopefully attracting new and better opportunities. And when the right opportunities come along and when I have the time and the interest and the right opportunity kind of all lines up get involved with a new business. So that's sort of where I mean I'm not sure if I'm quite there yet because there's still quite a bit working out with the crypto site but fast forward a couple of months the idea is to continue to share more, put myself out there, connect more, just really finding opportunities to connect with and help other entrepreneurs as priority. And then also if down the road whether that's in three months or six months or whatever when I'm looking to make the next investment to bring into the portfolio that also can put me in a position to be able to get access to good deal flow. And then I think the idea is getting involved with more and better businesses and bigger businesses going down the line while also kind of trimming or unloading different ones in the portfolio moving forward to just kind of have a better and especially now focusing on cash flow generating portfolio and moving forward. Mark: Cool. Yeah, the point of while connecting with other people I think people asked me a lot about the team that we built at Quiet Light Brokerage, where did I find some of these people that are working as brokers because as most of the listeners know everyone that works here at Quiet Light were all entrepreneurs. We've all started, we've all bought, and we've all sold our own internet based businesses. And frankly, the resume of my team completely drove some of the things I've ever done in my life. And I try to explain I've never actually actively recruited any of our guys or Amanda for that matter I'm sorry if I said just guys but the entire team. I haven't actively recruited anybody. And so the question comes to why, why do they do it? So much of it is exactly what you're talking about there; being able to connect. Finding that business where you're passionate about the business itself but also having the ability to connect with other intelligent entrepreneurs who share that same drive, that same desire for life and working in a project working towards and a goal; really, really cool. I think that's an interesting self-reflection that you've kind of come across over the past few years since you sold your last business that that's what you want to be doing. Have you thought about with the current businesses what you're going to do if they get to that point where now it's just another job? Nate: I mean … so I've kind of had … so something that I guess I gotten a lot of experience with and that I enjoy has always kind of been hiring in my businesses. And so I know many people kind of struggle with delegating and I think if anything I kind of error too much on the other side where if I ever catch myself doing something or I'm just like why am I doing this, it's just like as quickly as possible like who can I give this to? How can I find someone else to do this? And so because I'm very mindful and aware of … and increasingly so of what I spend my time on; is this my unique ability? Is this my superpower? Should I be doing this? Again also mindful of balance, like I'm not … there's a lot of things that I enjoy in my life and there's a lot of different pieces that I think contribute to having a good life. It's not just business and so if things are kind of starting to get too time consuming or heavily on the business side or if I find myself kind of doing some things that I don't think I like I think that even maybe a step before that kind of happening I would kind of be aware and look to delegate that to someone else on my team or find a way to change that situation. Because at this point in my life and career I want to work and I want to be productive but I want to do it in ways where I can have the biggest impact. And I know that there are certain activities where I can have a really big impact and it's just not like … and I also know that on the other side there are activities that don't have a big impact and so I'm just trying to focus on the big impact activities and the least amount on the lower ones. And so yeah I would I think maybe a step before it gets to the point where I'm doing all these things I don't want because I am quite mindful and intentionally thinking about these things I'd kind of like made a strategy or a plan to offload or get some of those things off my responsibility. Mark: Really cool. I love the whole purpose driven entrepreneurship that sort of outlook of things. Nate thanks so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Nate: Yeah thanks for having. This is a lot of fun and yeah if anybody has questions, comments, ideas, wants to connect like I said I love people, I love connecting with people. Anything I can help with feel free to reach out. My website is nateginsburg.com or [email protected]. If you like inspiration and also yoga balance stuff feel free to check out my Instagram Nate Ginsburg. Yeah, I'm happy to connect and chat. Mark: And you also know quite a bit about Amazon marketing which is actually what we originally were going to talk about but I got sidetracked here but you know this amount about that. Nate: Yeah if anyone is looking or interested in the Amazon space I have a lot of experience there as well as a team with a lot of experience in those things. And yeah I'm broadly open to opportunities and chat. I'm always looking for win-wins and yeah I would love to connect and help if I can. Mark: Alright very good. Hey, thanks, Nate. Nate: Yeah thanks for having me. Links and Resources: Nate's Website Nate's Instagram SellerPlex.com