The Ryen Russillo Podcast
Brunson’s Brilliance in the Clutch, the Celtics’ Uncertain Future, and Milwaukee’s Giannis Decision With Chris Mannix
Tue, 13 May 2025
Russillo starts the show with his thoughts on the Knicks and Timberwolves both taking 3-1 leads (1:30). Then, he’s joined by Chris Mannix to discuss how far the Knicks can actually advance, what the future looks like for Boston, and what a trade package for Giannis might look like (25:41). Plus, Life Advice with Kyle (1:09:09)! Is it weird to use my roommate's shower? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Chris Mannix Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, Mike Wargon, and Jonathan Frias Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What are the Knicks' chances after taking a 3-1 series lead against the Celtics?
Going to give us all of the lottery perspective that we need, as it reminds me that he was in the room last night for the ping pong balls. But we do a ton of stuff on the playoffs and also some speculation about a new home, perhaps, for Giannis this summer. And life advice. New York is where we start. They're up 3-1 in this second round series with the Celtics.
They are one win away from their first Eastern Conference Finals appearance since 2000, where they lost to the Pacers in six games. Ewing, not super healthy in that series, played in four, really only played in three games. But look... I'll go through all of it, much like you've heard me talk about these two teams all season long.
When Boston was down 0-2, as bad as it looked with the blown leads, they'll probably get game three. They get game three in dramatic, well, not even dramatic fashion, in dominant fashion. And then I was like, you know, they'll probably get through this series. They'll get a 2-2. Who knows? Maybe the Knicks get another one in this thing. Four straight against them? Probably not.
Boston likes to make this hard on themselves. And when it comes down to it, I think they'll get through this. Now, with everything that happened last night, I certainly no longer feel that way. We'll get to the Tatum part of this a little bit later.
Despite the regular season part of the evaluation where the Knicks struggled against the best teams, how these two teams matched up against each other, knowing that Detroit probably gave New York more of a series than we were expecting.
But at the same time, sometimes I think when we think one team is better than the other one, we expect them that they're just never supposed to lose a playoff game in that specific series, which isn't entirely fair and historically inaccurate. But now that we've seen this play out like this and you want to talk about toughness, New York is the tougher physical team. They're tougher mentally.
22.
23.
You're really going to lose the heat. So, usually when you win a championship, you're able to put the toughness questions to bed. Remember one of the storylines prior to the season where they won the title, and they have the Marcus Smart trade. It's like, if this team is constantly questioned about the toughness of their stars, then why would you trade what is... at least on paper, I don't know.
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Chapter 2: How has Jalen Brunson impacted the Knicks-Celtics playoff series?
Before the playoffs started, you're like, hey, I think the Knicks can win the East. That was tough. I wasn't going to go there with it. I don't know how many people actually thought that it could possibly happen. And there was a lot of real stuff from the regular season that would prevent me from getting there. If you look at who they were against Boston, Cleveland, and OKC, they were 0-10.
They lost by an average of almost 17 points in those 10 games. If you look at their record against teams that were 500 or better during the regular season... The Knicks were 15-23. That was worse than the top seven teams in the West. And only Detroit had a worse record against 500 or better teams in the top six in the East.
So, yeah, we can go through and say Mitchell Robinson didn't play in a bunch of those games. But still, and look, if Mitchell Robinson is this much of a difference, extend him now. And he has been really good. He's been really good consistently. I mean, the game three numbers, I'm not sure what to do with those. But in the three wins, it's a real difference.
And with him being in there with Cat, you know, Cat not hitting the threes and those two guys just beating up, like every rebound is a problem. Even when the Celtics defensive rebound, there's almost a delay of a couple touches and a couple tips where it's like just grinding on you.
And a bit like that running the football stuff that we've talked about, where is Houston going to be able to wear down a Golden State? Didn't work out. Their offense isn't good enough.
Does Minnesota absolutely wear down the Lakers in the fourth quarter because of their size and just all of the contested rebounds and all the physical shit that's just happening right around the rim over the course of a 48-minute game? The toll that you are paying playing against that when you are just not matching their size.
Boston should, at least on paper, with their different big lineups, be able to have the kind of size, but it's not – It is a problem down there, again, for all these numbers that we can point to. So Boston's blown a 20-point lead, a 20-point lead, and a 14-point lead in the third quarters in these losses. I've talked about the hunting part of this. Boston had the defensive lapses.
Bridges also hit great shots. They let Brunson get looser in that third quarter than I think they have at any longer stretch throughout this entire series. But this game started to fall apart. Once again, if you're a Celtics fan, you've seen it before. Hey, they're going to get the switch. Hey, they're going to take forever on the shot clock and they're going to run this out.
And I think there's a very common thing that happens with basketball players is when you're a little bit more tired. that three with a little space just feels a lot better than driving against all of the contact that you're going to face in a playoff game. Kat's done a better job holding up, and the help has been there.
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Chapter 3: What is the significance of Jayson Tatum's injury for the Celtics' future?
You know, the Butler thing is incredibly frustrating because, you know, look, it looks like last night looked a lot like some of these regular season games with Miami where you were like, what is going on with this guy? The shot attempt stuff from Jimmy's never been really high because he gets to the free throw line so much. but he didn't get to the free throw line last night either.
He was a negative 30, a team worse negative 30, and it showed up. So when I think back to Jimmy and some of the quotes after Miami, it's like they took my joy away from me. Well, do they still have it? Because, man, they need you. And Golden State was in this game.
I mean, even if I thought Minnesota eventually would pull away, because that's what you think is going to happen with a better basketball team, you're watching it going... This is why coaches go crazy, because if everyone just played hard enough, everyone would have a chance.
You know, this zone thing that we're seeing constantly throughout the playoffs, I start to wonder, is the zone becoming this equalizer where if you're the lesser talented team, which is something I think everybody kind of grew up with. It's like, hey, we stink. We're not as good as those guys. We're playing zone. Should that be happening in the NBA?
Although I think Cleveland would submit, maybe we shouldn't have played it as much as we did in game four, even though it worked so well in game three. So Kerr's probably going at halftime going, we're in the fight. We're still in this thing. We can get this thing to 2-2. I think that first half of last night is why I think all coaches in all sports go crazy because they're the...
They're the absolute believers in our society. They will find a way to believe in their side. And that's what you want from your coach. You don't want him showing up being like, we don't have any chance. I've made the mistake when I was younger at times, like talking with a coach in a sport and being like, well, yeah, but like, I don't know that you guys really have a chance.
I mean, it's like insulting a child. I'm like, what? I'd never do it anymore. I had somebody on say, hey, thanks for the time. This is a tough series. How could you possibly win? These guys convinced themselves through the film and all the study, and if they can just get that effort, and that's what that first half was, until again, Ant decided to shut the door.
Ant now against Golden State is scoring 7.5 points in the first half of these games, and he's going for 20 in the second half. Randall was terrific last night. Minnesota's oddly having the Rudy games and the non-Rudy games, and it doesn't really matter.
But they take a 3-1 lead in this series, and it probably is the way the series should look, despite some of the moments where you're like, why is Minnesota still screwing around with this team and being down in both of the last two games at Golden State? Final thought, I don't believe the lottery is fixed. The Ryan Rosillo Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.
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Chapter 4: What challenges does Boston face with their current salary cap and roster?
I don't think they have the defensive skill set or the defensive horses to beat any of those teams that come out of the West. But can they get to the finals? Yeah, I think they can easily get to the finals. I don't think an Indiana series is necessarily all that problematic for them.
I think the same strengths they have in this series, being Brunson, Bridges and Ananobi defensively, Towns in the post, I think those are going to be... similarly strong for them in a conference finals matchup. But you get to the NBA finals, I don't know, man. I don't know if you see it, but I don't see how they match up well with any of those teams.
Maybe it's assuming a little bit here with OKC getting through Denver because there's some... I thought it was pretty cool how they put up the clutch numbers and where OKC had been in clutch moments against Denver. They throw up that graphic and then OKC closes as the much better clutch team.
You just start to expect, even though the number with OKC was they've only played in 24 clutch games, lowest total. Then I'm kind of sitting there and be like, OK, but is the best team in the NBA now just going to suck because they weren't challenged enough?
enough i mean 24 is still over 25 of the regular season games it's technically clutch games it just happens to be the least like boston played in 33 clutch games in 24 does it mean that boston was more conditioned for clutch things because they had seven more opportunities to like figure out who they were so it it's as they were struggling against denver and then you pop up that graphic it's like i guess these two things are connected but i just would
essentially sit there and be like, well, I refuse to believe that they're just now going to be bad in the clutch all the time because they're less comfortable than some of these other teams that had so many more opportunities to play clutch time during the regular season. So it is assuming a bit that they're just going to get through Denver.
Because if Denver had gotten through this, you'd be like, all right, well, look, they still have the best player in the world. I don't even know what I would do with Denver and Minnesota. I don't know if last year would have played in it, all of that. But I don't know that it's a reset because we're still obviously not done here with the second round. But are you...
of the position now where it just feels like it's oklahoma city's title considering what could be coming out of the east and the other side of the west hey again i'm with you this is going to be a tough finish for oklahoma city uh i think that they're gonna have to do it in seven games i think i don't think they can close out denver in denver um
But if they get that far, I just think their defensive versatility is going to be a problem for the Knicks. It's going to be a problem for the Pacers. I mean, you would have thought that Boston, with its defensive wings, could have... slowed Brunson down more than they have. But I look at what Oklahoma City can throw out there.
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Chapter 5: How did Anthony Edwards' performance affect the Timberwolves-Warriors series?
Do you have any read on the Tatum injury?
Not really. And I've done probably what you've done. I've talked to a lot of trainers and medical experts around the league, and they've all kind of reacted the same way with like, hold up on the Achilles stuff because when you have an Achilles injury, you don't react like that. Like, you do go down.
I'm glad you also said it. Right. Because like that was very surprising to me because every Achilles injury we see, whether it's the Kobe one, the Dame one, James Wiseman, where it's almost confusion and then it's not painful and then you can walk. Yeah. So I'm glad you said it as well in the people that you've talked with. So keep going because I know.
No. Yeah. I mean, you, you, oftentimes you kind of see guys turn around, like Wiseman actually turned around or one, but he thought somebody stepped on his foot in that moment. You know, Kobe walked his way to the free throw line, even Durant, you know, same thing, kind of, there's a resignation to, to the, to the guy that has the set because they know what happened. But it's not the kind of,
you know, excruciating pain that Tatum looked like he was in the moment, even when he was being wheeled off, like you could see there was still pain there. There was still a lot going on with that ankle. I think, you know, he's obviously done for the series. I think there's no doubt about that, but I think best case scenario for Boston is it's,
some kind of ligament tear that doesn't require the recovery time of an Achilles. I mean, an Achilles injury, even in today's modern NBA where guys recover from things a lot quicker, that is still almost always a year recovery time. And if you come back a little bit earlier than that, you're not the same guy. It takes you six months to get back to being close to the player that you once were.
So I think even the Celtics, the hope is that it's some kind of ligament tear of some sorts that maybe requires surgery, but only has a six month recovery time as opposed to a 12 month recovery time.
Some serious semantics work here with this Yana story where the headline yesterday and it set off a lot of buzz around the league. I'm sure you're well aware, especially being in Chicago, of just as soon as you land, I land yesterday, you get text. It's like, hey, I think, you know, what do you think? And all this different stuff. And it's like, OK, well, my position was always that.
If Giannis was happy, that was probably going to be good enough for me if I were Horst. It's been like, look, we have one of the stars of the league. He's terrific. The options around us are very limited. But going back into next year with this kind of player who's this special, and if we win 48, 50 games, like, who knows? And...
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Chapter 6: What are the implications of the NBA lottery results and playoff betting insights?
Yeah, I think they've got some options here. I think they're in a strong position. Number one, because of the contract that Giannis is under with the two guaranteed years left. And number two, I don't think that Giannis would protest too many deals. I don't think that Giannis... would try to steer his way to a specific location because of lifestyle or any non-basketball reasons.
Every readout I've had on Giannis is that he wants to put himself in the best position to win. And the teams that we can talk about that have the assets to acquire him, if they acquired him, they would immediately be in a great position to win. The question then becomes like, What are those teams and what would they have to give up?
Now I've, I've done kind of a one 80 on some of these teams in the last, you know, 48 hours is I've, I've talked to people in Chicago. Like, like I came in to this Giannis and I'd, I've been thinking about Giannis deals since they got knocked out. Cause I never believed he was going to come back given the Dame injury, but,
Think about Oklahoma City with Jalen Williams, the Hardenstein contract, all the draft picks that they have. That team makes sense. But does Oklahoma City want to tie itself to a player that is going to consume 35% of its salary cap? They've got a lot of contracts. Even with a big deal, they're going to have to work out. in the years to come. San Antonio, getting the number two overall pick.
All of a sudden, you're saying, all right, well, if you're Milwaukee and you love Dylan Harper, you can say, this is our next franchise guy. We're trading the franchise guy, but we're getting one back in return and we're getting a whole smorgasbord of, you know, Keldon Johnson, Devin Vassell types that can go into that deal. But if the Spurs acquired Giannis,
that kind of starts a clock on a Wembanyama window, at least window 1.0. Because if they don't win a championship with Giannis at 30-31, De'Aaron Fox at 27-28, four years from now, when those guys are either well past their prime or potentially even gone, Wembanyama might be looking around going like, you know, where's the rest of my talent?
Where is the group of players that I'm going to win with when these two guys are long gone? I think Houston's interesting, but does Milwaukee really want anything that's built around Jalen Green? And do they insist on getting Ahmed Thompson back, which would be a non-starter for me if I was Houston?
So on the surface, to me, it looked initially like, all right, there's going to be a lot of teams out there with big packages that you could send to Milwaukee for Giannis. But it might take a lot more work by the Bucs to unearth some of those packages.
Yeah, look, I mean, there's a lot of really good stuff in there. And the price is... I mean, if Giannis is letting Milwaukee dictate between three to five different teams here, then the pricing of this is entirely different because so many of the other superstars that were traded, it's like you're going to lose the trade, the talent trade, other than the SGA and the picks for Paul George.
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Chapter 7: What is Chris Mannix's analysis of the Knicks' playoff performance and outlook?
Me too.
Why would Giannis be okay with that one, though? Like, cool, I'm in Brooklyn.
I don't know. I mean, the nets of any team that was in that drawing room, they were hoping for a top four pick because they believe that a top four pick plus whatever they could offer in a deal would have made it interesting, would have put them in play for Giannis. Without that top four pick, I don't think they're in play. I don't think they can put together
the package that would satisfy Milwaukee in that situation. But they were in turn, like in that room and outside that room, I'm telling you, they were on pins and needles, hoping that they were the team that moved up in the draft. I look, I get the perspective of Oklahoma city from what I was hearing. Like, you know, that's a big number for them to absorb, but yeah,
The Thunder, they're really young, but they're not that young. You know what I mean? They're not at the point where they can afford to just punt on a couple of years as they continue to grow. Shea is just hitting his prime. Lou Dort is right around that age range. If you have a chance...
to go out and get a player of that caliber and open up a window that you know four or five years to be the dominant team in a western conference that just got a lot tougher like you know cooper flag you know going to dallas makes that conference tougher san antonio whatever they do with that second pick makes that conference a lot tougher if you have a chance to to move the needle that's
I think you've got to take a swing. And if you're Milwaukee, like, I don't know if Jalen Williams is James Harden, but I think Jalen Williams outside of that Oklahoma city ecosystem is going to put up big numbers. I think he's, he's a big time player, two way player that I think has, you know, front facing potential with your franchise.
Like that, that would be the team I'd want to be in the mix most in, If I'm Milwaukee, if I'm Milwaukee, I'm watching the rest of this series, hoping the Thunder lose and then hoping that Sam Presti in that front office feel like they have to do something with the teams in the West arming up around them.
Yeah, I'm glad you got to the Presti part of this because if there's one GM who I would feel like would resist a positive or negative result in what he was going to do this summer, it would be Presti. He'll either look at his team and go, hey, I really like this team. Say him talking, we lose to Denver or we lose to Minnesota.
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Chapter 8: What are the trade possibilities and future for Giannis Antetokounmpo and the Milwaukee Bucks?
But I guess my original point is that I think sometimes we have to have a little bit more
allowance on people hitting into you because i've seen bad golfers hit into somebody because they just hit the best shot they're going to hit all day and they never hit it that far with their iron and they compress it and it just goes way farther than they expected it to yes and it's just we all need to at times understand like some stuff is going to happen i don't care who you are you're probably going to hit an errant shot
You're going to hit it. I mean, look, it's a little different when you're slicing it and hitting somebody else's approach while they're in the opposite fairway. And you just feel like an asshole because you've hit a terrible shot. But I mean, there's a lot of times where I think, even though I don't play that often, you'll notice it feels like somebody's hitting up on you.
And then they're waving, almost apologize if you're hitting this great shot because they didn't expect it to happen. Sure, they could be a little... The hardcore golfer is going to tell us that none of this stuff should ever really happen. But it sounds like you played with an insane person. So...
I did, but I just I kind of like the tee it up move. It's like you don't have to yell. You don't have to throw the ball back. I even Google it to see if this happens. A couple people had mentioned it, but a lot of dudes are like, oh, well, I would have just chucked it in the drink or I would have taken out my Sharpie and wrote screw you on it or something. But I just I like the the tee it up.
It leaves people a little confused. And then you're kind of like, oh, no, did I hit into them? I don't know. I might use it in the future unless it's like a grave offense. I just kind of like it. The guy kind of redeemed himself after a day of sucking. I was like, wow, you really made me think about that one.
harvey i'm glad you looked it up i mean because look no one is more prepared to tell you what you should have done in the person that wasn't there yeah right i know as we were leaving uh there were dudes teeing off and they saw this guy they're like oh you golfed with grumpy today so i guess he's like uh i guess he's known uh at roosevelt so uh anyway just wanted to ask
about that when i come and play i don't want to play with him all right just a heads up all right i'm gonna say you sure you don't want to get better he's giving out lessons all right
I'd rather be worse, sir. Yeah. I was thinking about saying some version of that to him after I didn't realize that it was going to open up a hole. I thought it was going to be a quick tip. He's got me doing drills. There's people behind us. And he's like, here, here, take one of my balls. I put your feet all the way together and hit it. And I'm like, dude, it's a backup here. We can't.
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