The Ryen Russillo Podcast
Luka’s Homecoming, an NFL Draft QB Breakdown With Quincy Avery, and Cincinnati Basketball GM Corey Evans Joins
Thu, 10 Apr 2025
Russillo starts the show by sharing his thoughts on Luka’s return to Dallas (1:40). Then, he‘s joined by QB coach Quincy Avery to rank this year’s QB class, as well as explain what makes Cam Ward so good and why he’s down on Shedeur Sanders (13:17). Next, Cincinnati basketball GM Corey Evans comes on to talk about his time in OKC, why he made the jump to college, and how evaluating talent in college differs from the pros (43:27). Plus, Life Advice with Kyle (1:08:17)! If I wear Masters gear having never been to Augusta, is that stealing valor? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Quincy Avery and Corey Evans Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, Mike Wargon, and Jonathan Frias Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What happened during Luka Doncic's emotional return to Dallas?
Now, we think after Luca's return, and now that it played out, that we can put this to bed for a little bit, at least nationally. Locally, this is going to probably continue, I don't know, you could say years, but you understand the point. Like, how often daily talk shows are like, yeah, we're just going to leave with Luca again today.
Now, I know that going back to the radio days, there were a lot of topics. I'm like, we're going to do this again. You know, even though ultimately I could have final say of like, I just don't want to do this anymore. There was one day I was like, I just don't want to do deflate gate anymore. This is so stupid. I don't want to talk about it. It's boring.
Um, but then sometimes you feel like, you know what, you're going to play the hits start to show. All right. So the latest, you know, Schefter has a tweet on this. I just, I hated it. I got so sick of it because we were talking about it all of the time. And you could argue that it was still relevant.
But with Luca and what happened last night and where the story is gone now in two plus months, it still feels worth talking about. I know that I click on everything having to do with this trade. Anything that's new, I'm just always looking to find some other new piece of information to try to further understand this, realizing I'm never going to further understand.
We had Tim McMahon on who just released the Luca book, Wonder Boy. They wrote it, finished it. It was done. Then Luca got traded. They had it added an extra chapter. I've read the book. I read the extra chapter. We had Tim on help me understand it. And it's kind of all the stuff that we've been talking about now for two plus months.
I'm always wondering if there's going to be something new and there just never really is. February 1st, this thing happened. And here we are. So maybe we put it to bed a little bit now. After his return, it's a great game. The Lakers win. You look at the playoff seedings, it's very unlikely that they'd be facing each other.
It feels pretty unlikely that the Dallas Mavericks would even get out of the play-in. The Lakers are the three seed this morning. And I know there's a lot of jumbled up stuff, but just trying to even figure out a way they'd play each other again, it doesn't really seem all that likely. Now, even with... trying to figure out how a Nico Harrison could do something like this.
I'm never going to find that new piece of information that makes me go like, oh, all right, yeah. Now it makes a little bit more sense, even if we don't like the trade. And I've just never even gotten there with any of this stuff, which I imagine is the same for a lot of you. Part of the defense of this move is,
During the initial press conference with Nico and Jason Kidd, there was a lot of things that were said. Some pointed stuff that was clearly directed at Luka, that he wasn't committed enough. I mean, they didn't say that, but that's kind of what they were saying. Didn't fit the culture. Culture is just kind of this catch-all word. It's like, that doesn't sound very good. Defense. You're like, okay.
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Chapter 2: How does Quincy Avery rank and evaluate the 2024 NFL Draft QB class?
But I think if his last name was Williams, he is a six round quarterback.
So it's not the padding of the ball to pro day.
I could care so little about padding of the football. I think probably 85% of the NFL quarterback today, Pat, the football, it's a rhythm thing. It's a sequencing. It allows guys to throw the football better. And I'm not, who should or pat the ball you want, but let's make some decisions a little bit faster. Let's have an idea of what we're doing. We get to learn scrimmage.
Now, maybe it's something that he just wasn't coached on. And that's hard for me because I don't get to interview the guys. I don't know what they're saying in these meetings about what they were taught, what they should have, should have known going into college. But there's guys that I work with in pre-draft who can kill it on the, at least on the whiteboard. And you see it in the games.
Okay, if I wanted to defend Shador, because I think I've said throughout this, at least I know he's tough because he got his ass handed to him for two straight years. And then he seemed to have – maybe I'm being a little theatrical about it, but just that he seemed to have a flair for the dramatic. Maybe I'm thinking about the Colorado State game too much.
But it's like, man, there's not really much else – that we can count on. Like, can you just get back there and survive long enough to make some kind of play? You're absolutely right. The number, once I saw what the number was and throws the line of scrimmage behind, it's staggering. Like, you're like, man.
And that's why anybody that wants to throw around completion percentages is a true indication of whether or not a quarterback's accurate. Like, it's over. It's been over for years. You're going to stop doing that with college QBs. But I don't know. Some people still seem to fall for that every now and then. And he had awesome receivers, right? So he had awesome receivers.
So that – we're not even just talking about Hunter. Like, I felt like they had, like, four dudes that were all out there making plays whenever you would watch them play. Is there enough –
in the i sound like i'm making excuses but i'm just wondering how it would be argued in the room like oh hey everything quincy said is right like you're at the other end of the table like you're you're right but you know he got his ass handed to him the entire time he answered the bell every single time like the guy's a competitor you know then you start going into things that may not matter as much but it comes from a great lineage you know like
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Chapter 3: What makes Cam Ward the top quarterback prospect according to Quincy Avery?
I'm just that's a staggering statement from you to say that he'd be if he's if he's Shador Williams, he's a sixth rounder. Like that's that sounds crazy in the build up to what's coming up here with the draft.
He's tough as shit. He is a tough dude. And like you talk about, he has a flair for theatrics. You see those games where he really started to do really good things. It's like two minute offense. What does it even start doing a two minute offense? They're not bringing pressure. Like he has time to see things and operate. He can play like that.
If he doesn't get pressure and the line does a sufficient job, he's okay. But if I know that he has a difficult times with, seeing blitzes and seeing rotation and these guys coming and hitting him in his face mask. That's going to be the, that's going to be the answer in the NFL. But he, he's a winner. Like there's somebody, but okay. What NFL coaching staff wants to draft a guy,
Cause if you're drafting early, you're not that good. So you don't have that much time left. You know, his father's Deion Sanders, all the scrutiny you're going to get, not just about his play, but his dad's also going to stir some things up. And then I got to worry about Deion trying to take my job. Like there's so many things that make it difficult for me to see.
Like, I know people say dad being Deion's helpful, but I, I think that it's like the opposite. If I'm New York Giants, If I'm Dayball and I got to put this guy in, that's not a good situation.
Yeah. Hearing about how much you suck or struggle in week 11. Yeah, that's I don't think it's like out of the question that that could happen. OK, let's talk, Chuck, who's kind of the late comer to the process. He's been at a few different spots, but I think it was always just kind of in the quest of like, hey, how many of these guys?
I mean, sometimes you just have a bad class and it sounds like that's what we're ramping up towards here. But break him down for us.
Tyler is a really good, he's a much better athlete than I think that people know. He understands the game at a really high level. And when you watch him in the red zone, and that's where I love to see guys, especially the college level players in the red zone, he's able to make a ton of throws with anticipation.
You'll see like backline where it's outside receiver running the dig and we see this and he's able to move a defender with his eyes and work back. He's playing the game of quarterback. He's playing the quarterback position. He understands what I need to do in order to set guys up to be successful. He does have the strongest arm. He's athletic enough. He's very accurate.
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Chapter 4: Why is Quincy Avery skeptical about Shedeur Sanders as an NFL QB?
I think he's going to have the ability to have more play action scheme where he's able to move the defense early on with run action and see a very clear picture.
In your years of working with Elite 11, and it's really one of my favorite things I do all year long because how smart all of you guys are. This is sports. We get so much stuff wrong. I find those few hours with the staff and watching the kids throw, the hit rate that you guys have on the stuff that you'll tell me
is unbelievable like i there's nothing that is i'm serious man like that's why i always like kind of after the fact i'm like all right you know this is like i remember rolling in thinking like oh this guy's this and i'm like no no he isn't like what i'm like you're gonna be kidding me i mean it's happened with a bunch of different quarterbacks is there someone on the positive side of this like what you had early and you're like that guy's a pro that guy's a first round pick
I'm sure it's happened a lot because you guys did everything.
Yeah. CJ Shroud would probably be the best example of that. And CJ Shroud was actually someone who came into the lead 11, very, very undervalued. No one saw like the talent. He was actually our last pick in terms of getting into the 22 guys who get to come in or doodle down to 11 guys. He was someone who is a mental makeup.
made it very easy for us to say he's going to be a first-round quarterback. I've never seen someone so consistently do every single thing right in terms of preparation, the little details of the playbook. He knew everything going in. He studied. He'd been through adversity. And that is a huge thing when you want to talk about quarterbacks.
Who has been through adversity and has been able to make it out on the other side? He had that. and then he threw the ball with a level of confidence. You know how sometimes you'll see a quarterback throw a football, and it looks like he hopes the guy catches it?
CJ Stroud threw every single ball, and it was like, I know this is going to be exactly where it needs to be, and all this guy has to do is his job. And we saw that from him at 17 years old, continued to see it throughout his college career. And it was funny, I think about his first start against the University of Minnesota,
And he just struggled a little bit to start the game and his ability to just be resilient enough to come back and win that game. I was like, all right, we're good. He's going to be exactly who we think he is. And he had a bunch of top tier. I think when yours was buying that year, people were like, yo, we got to get, he was like, no, I got it.
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Chapter 5: What are the critiques and insights on Jalen Milrow and other QB prospects?
So you'll know what you don't know, but you also are self-aware enough and hardworking enough and humble enough to be open to not being afraid with being the dumbest guy in the room and keep learning and keep giving and keep trying to be around better people that might teach you.
Yeah, I remember when I started in Boston and it was like the first time I was getting access to front office people and I would go to the Portsmouth Invitational, you know, 2003. And I just was so obsessed with this idea that there was a lens that I didn't understand.
Like there was this lens that you would watch the game through that once you learned that trick, that then you would be able to do this or have one of these jobs. And I keep asking everybody in it. And one thing about like asking people with a very specific career is that some people will try to make it seem harder than it is to kind of become more impressive. Right.
But the guys that I trusted and the guys that ended up being right to your point were like, there's not really any necessarily like a secret. Like you either figure it out or you don't, but really you just have to keep watching. You have to just keep watching over and over again. Cause then when the things that are special, you'll notice it in a way that just feels natural. Right.
And it just becomes second nature. So your whole osmosis thing, I think, is absolutely the point. I mean, there's some people that could just watch a ton of basketball. They're never, ever going to figure it out. But there isn't... I guess the lesson that I've learned in like 20 plus years of watching is that I don't know that there's some magic trick to this whole thing. So...
Clearly, whatever it was or whatever this thing that we're trying to define that's difficult to define, whatever that is, you've been good enough at it to then end up with a thunder. So what was that moment like when you have what's considered one of the best front offices in the business reaching out for your services?
Yeah, going back on that, Sam Pressy always said, I'm going to bat 300 and you might bat 280. So he's going to be wrong a lot too. So you just might as well just stick to what you believe in and what you see. And as long as you've done the work, Hey, I'm going to get something wrong. You're going to get something wrong.
And you can look back at the Oklahoma city thunder drafting and it's been amazing, but there's also been some misses there as well. But I think a large portion of that is situational base, right? Do you have some players that, like a trade man for us from Oklahoma City. He's more than good enough.
He's an NBA player, but the situation might not have been conducive enough for his role and for his abilities. He's definitely a top 300 player in the NBA. It's just with our roster construction, it wasn't meant to be. So learning that and learning how to specify a role and making sure that they're above a certain threshold elsewhere, makes them good enough, I hope.
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Chapter 6: How does the NFL QB draft process and Pro Day evaluations work?
So Troy and BAML developed a great rapport for 20 years and Pete and I got very close and one thing led to the next and he connected me with Troy Weaver and Troy and I developed inroads to a certain extent over a two, three year timeframe. And that is what kind of led me to Sam Presley and Oklahoma City Thunder eventually. I think Sam wanted someone on the ground floor
Sam called me up one day at USA Basketball in Colorado Springs and said, Corey, would you like to meet tomorrow? Are you in Colorado Springs? Dot, dot, dot. This is Sam. I'm like, who the hell is Sam? Like, what runner is this now? Like, what middleman is this? So it was Sam Presti. And we talked for about four or five hours the next day about where things were going.
And it was a couple months after he traded for Shea Gilgis. And... It was the vision and place he had. He was very resolute with where things were going to go as far as not a complete teardown, but that we just traded Paul George for four first round draft picks. A guy named Shea Gildas Alexander who could be really good in the NBA and that we might have more draft picks on the way.
And we need someone on the ground floor that knows the whole industry, that knows the people in the industry, that knows how the kids think and work. And, you know, I got to thinking, hey, is this the right step for me? It was not an immediate yes. When you become comfortable with where you are and you feel like you're among the very best in your industry, it's a jump, right?
You want to jump over that ledge and burn the boats in a sense, but are you ready for it? And ultimately, again, Ryan, like looking back on it, what a dumb ass, right? Like, why wouldn't you have done that, man? It's where things are now. But at the time, you're going back and forth of, is this the right move or not?
Now, Sam's probably, I don't know, I doubt Sam will listen to this, but he'll be like, can you guys talk about Cincinnati and not talk about how we do things? But I do have to ask because I just have so much respect for Sam and what I've loved about the approach of
you know, building a roster where guys, when they have the ball in their hands are okay with it, you know, making sure that, and you can just see like even the Usman Jang pick, I was like, you know, that kind of makes sense for the way they see what they want and how they want to build out their roster. But is there anything that you could share with us?
Cause I do want to pivot to Cincinnati here. Is there anything in all the years of being in the room with the Presti or somebody else that, where it's like, okay, this, this way they look at that or something that was said, you feel like this now will influence the way I think about roster building or just evaluation of players.
I could talk about that for an hour to be in that room with Sam Presley and Rob Hennigan, former GM of the magic. And now, uh, AC Law, the former A&M star, they know where they're going and they know what they want. And it's about processing. It's about positional size and versatility. And the most important part is intel.
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