The Ryen Russillo Podcast
More Luka Trade Fallout! The Pulse of Mavs Fans with Will Cain. Fox to the Spurs. Plus the LeBron, Klutch and Lakers Plans with Jovan Buha.
Mon, 03 Feb 2025
Russillo starts the show by once again trying to make sense of the Mavericks trading Luka Dončić (0:40). Then, he’s joined by Will Cain to gain a fan's perspective of the Luka trade and discuss the differences between ESPN and Fox News (16:02). Next, Ryen shares his thoughts on De’Aaron Fox being traded to the Spurs before Ceruti joins to determine which teams wouldn’t have been interested in trading with Dallas (51:38). Next, Jovan Buha explains how the Luka deal materialized, what this means for LeBron’s future, and whether the Lakers will make any more moves before the trade deadline (69:44). Finally, Life Advice with Ceruti and Kyle (96:40)! How do I get my daughter out of watching a neighbor's cat? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, live streams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Will Cain and Jovan Buha Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What happened with Luka Doncic's trade?
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Big basketball podcast. Let's do it. Luca to the Lakers. Everything that I've been able to piece together and why I think one part of this I will never be okay with. We've got Will Kane. Politics and pick and roll. Probably more just on Luca. De'Aaron Fox also on the move to San Antonio. So a few on that.
Serena and I run through the no list of Luca trades and the Lakers future with Yovan Buha and life advice. On Saturday night, Luka was traded to the Lakers. Bill Simmons, Rob Mahoney, and I, we all did an emergency pod because this deserved an emergency pod. It's one of those trades. It's the biggest trade of my NBA lifetime. It's the kind of trade or news that I'll remember exactly where I was.
Saturday night, not very wild. Back home, laying in bed. Paul catch fire on TV. Excited about it. And then you see the first piece of news start traveling in. Your phone starts blowing up. Is this real? What are you talking about, man? And then you see Shams' tweet that Luka Doncic has been traded to the Lakers for Anthony Davis.
And I, like everybody else, is like, this doesn't make a lot of sense. And Shams had to say, this is not fake. Like, I haven't been hacked. And Bobby Marks had to be like, he's not hacked. That's how unbelievable this trade was. Call Bill. Bill's like, I guess we do an emergency pod. I'm like, yeah, I think you have to for this one. And we did it. We sorted through it.
And I was hoping by Monday morning of this taping that I would have more info for you. So let's just try to work through it a little bit because the league is still shocked by all of this. So I think it still works today. My reaction was like everybody else. Why would you trade someone like Luka Doncic at 25 years old? He's already made five all NBA first teams by 25.
His range is probably at best the second best player in the world. At worst, the third best player in the world. I think he's better than SGA. I'm sure there could be an argument. So let's say the worst you could rank Luka today is the fourth best player in the world at 25 years old. Guys like this do not get traded. And again, it's the most stunning trade of my lifetime.
So since Saturday night, I probably, just because people can't stop talking about this, maybe half the teams, someone for half the teams in the league, because you keep trying to put this together. And now I don't know that there's much more of a mystery. It's like, have you heard from anyone that knew that he was available.
Did you hear from any team where Niko just kicked the tires and like, hey, what would you do in theory if we were willing to trade Luka Doncic? Because a lot of times, this is how all this stuff happens. These guys talk to each other nonstop. They know which front offices like their players, which players that they don't like, who could be available, who might not be available. It's just a big...
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Chapter 2: How do Mavs fans feel about Luka's departure?
PJ's got a knee issue. Gafford missed a game recently, not that big of a deal. Lively's out indefinitely with a stress fracture. So maybe it works or maybe they never get fully healthy and we can't judge Dallas on this trade anyway. I think all of those possibilities are on the table at this point. I also worry a little bit about the dynamic of Kyrie as the true one. I think he loves the role.
I think he likes being mic'd up. I think he likes it kind of being his team, despite staying all the right things and playing some really good basketball and being drama-free here for two years. But The weird part about Kyrie's playoff run last year is that when it was great, it was just universally praised as great, and when it was bad, it didn't really matter because Luka was there.
Where Kyrie could have bad stretches and big playoff moments that just kind of became hidden because he was the two and not the one, and the one gets... the brunt of all that criticism. When you're the one and your team doesn't win in the playoffs in the NBA, it's like, oh, what's wrong with this guy? And Kyrie's able to avoid a lot of that stuff because Luka was there. Now he won't.
And to be honest with you, it's not going to be because AD can overshadow. Kyrie is the focus of attention here because AD is kind of the same way. As great as he is, he's a deferential personality. He probably works better with somebody else who's perceived more as the face of a franchise, a popularity superstar like LeBron James, despite the fact
Look, the last two years, Anthony Davis was the better basketball player between the two guys. For the Lakers, it's a franchise reset, and it should be. Who cares about 2025? I don't like their defense on the perimeter right now. Who cares? Because once Luka becomes available to you, you trade for Luka, and you worry about the rest of it later.
Some have said the Lakers got sick of LeBron and Clutch.
Okay.
I'll hear you out. But, you know, you were so sick of Clutch and LeBron that, what, you gave LeBron a two-year, $100 million extension with a player option? You drafted his son. You hired another new coach, this time it being J.J. Redick. And I don't want to be dismissive of J.J. by saying, oh, you hired his podcast co-host, because I love the J.J. Redick hire. And again, I'm biased. I like J.J.
Redick. But, Recent history tells us you weren't that sick of them. So this week you got sick of them? You got sick of AD? You got sick of LeBron? You're going to take some power back? No. You can say those things to people and be like, ah, you know, it's starting to get a little old here inside the building. No, Luka was available, and that's why you did this.
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Chapter 3: What are the implications of De'Aaron Fox's trade to the Spurs?
And to see one of my loves gutted, 100% gutted, the spirit and soul ripped out of it, it's just, it just feels like a real loss of hope. Wow, that was intense and efficient. What bothers you the most? Okay, what bothers me the most is that whoever made this decision, and I always respect that, you know, even when we were together, you talked about, I have sources.
meaning you have sources, Russillo. You don't do this through, like I do, the prism of the fan. But on this one, I do know some things. And what I have been told and led to believe is this was really heavily, if not exclusively, driven by Nico. So, you know, I don't want to focus all my fire on Nico Harrison because I don't think it can be completely true that he does a decision like this.
You know, we know that there had to be sign-offs, but as far as driving the decision... What has me most upset is there is no understanding from whoever made this decision, we'll presume Nico Harrison, that the role Luka played in the psyche in the city of Dallas, and it's singular, and it can't be replaced. And I posted this on X yesterday.
It's the type of thing that a championship doesn't just replace. So if I even accept the most, you know, superficial... that, oh, this makes us a better basketball team. Charles Barkley says it makes Dallas perhaps the second best team in the West.
If I even cared about the X's and O's of that right now, and it worked out in the most optimistic manner possible, and they win a championship this year, I don't think it's enough. I don't think it replaces having an iconic figure who's not just the face of the franchise, but I think, you know,
the face of the league, and if not the face of the league now, with some certainty, the face of the league within five years. And to rip that out, who's a homegrown dude that we brought over, that had doubt around him. I debated Stephen A and Max on whether or not they should, you know, they should take DeAndre, or whether or not DeAndre Ayton's a better pick, or,
I don't even remember the name of the dude that Sacramento picked second or third. Bagley. Bagley. That was the type of debate we were having. And it was like, no, no, no. We got Luca. We pulled off a heist somehow. The basketball gods gave us this unicorn. And he proved to be everything that you ever wanted. And he just represented more. Honestly, he represented more than championships.
And I will say this. This is like the Mavs trading Dirk in 2006. And if the Mavs had won the championship in 07 and 08 without dirt, it wouldn't mean as much as winning in 2011 with dirt.
Yeah, you touched on a bunch of good things there. The ownership part of this, because none of this stuff happens, like the number of times that you'll hear about something and then, you know, like a week later, somebody's like, wow, the owner, you know, did or didn't want to do this. Like, there's just so many deals that either happen because the owner's
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Chapter 4: How did the Luka deal come about?
So this ownership group, by the way, is largely divested from Las Vegas. They don't own the Venetian. They don't own casinos in Las Vegas. And trust me when I tell you that there is a belief widespread that Texas, forget Dallas, Dallas versus Vegas isn't even a comp. No business owner goes, I think I'm moving from Dallas to Vegas. No, that's not a comparable market decision.
Chapter 5: What are the Lakers' plans following Luka's trade?
But the idea of Texas is a big time investment. you will see gambling legalized in Texas. You will see casinos built in Texas. You will see the Mavericks somehow tied in to all of those things. So that's not happening. I don't think there's any way this is tied to moving the Mavericks to Vegas.
And the NBA was doing them a solid, get Luka to LA and help out our ratings and you can move the franchise to Vegas. No, that's not That's not real. Russillo, people name their dog Luca here. Like, it's... There's not a comp, man. Here's the best I did. I tried to think about this. Because, you know, me on my thing saying, you know, a championship doesn't heal this wound.
I don't know, just two or three championships? Well, the closest comp I can come up with, besides the hypothetical of them trading Dirk, is Jerry Jones firing Tom Landry in 1988 into 1989. That was a big deal. Like, there are old head, and you and I are old heads now, but Cowboy fans who never forgave Jerry Jones, despite the dynasty of the 90s, just did not forgive him for doing that to an icon.
Now, the difference is Tom Landry was really down. Like, the Cowboys were not good in those two or three years leading up to Jones' purchase of them. Luka is, like, right now entering his prime, and they just came back from the NBA Finals. So even that comp falls short. I don't know how from a PR perspective you recover. And maybe I'm wrong. And I guess I hope I'm wrong.
Like maybe three championships. And I know that sounds ridiculous. Maybe two championships heals this. But I don't want two championships right now. You know what I want? I want Luka to be a Dallas Maverick.
The other thing that I have a hard time with is Like, you want to say Luka, like, oh, you know, he's gotten all these stats, whatever. Like, there's so many other players that have huge numbers and could potentially obtain all these individual accolades. There's going to be a couple guys that make the Hall of Fame where I go, like, cool. The fact that you would have
this Finals run, just a couple seasons after the Western Conference Finals run, where that team wasn't that good, but they knocked off a really good Phoenix team that had just been to the Finals. You look at the Phoenix Suns during that regular season, and for whatever reason, they just took their souls. They take their souls in that Game 7. they had no chance against the Warriors.
I was going through the other offensive options there, and you're like, Luka dragged this team. And I do think there are conference finals appearances that can be fool's gold and maybe gets a team thinking about themselves in a way that they shouldn't be thinking about themselves.
Like, hey, you guys actually aren't that close, and you're not as good as you think you are, even though it says you're one of the Final Four teams still standing. But Luka getting to the finals, again, with a different roster, that quickly after getting to that Western Conference Finals appearance, like, tells me that you actually are close. And again, this isn't some empty stat guy.
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Chapter 6: What life advice can we learn from this episode?
I think you and I were doing shows back then. And I was like, have any of you ever been to the South? Okay. Like, I think people are still going to play football. And then it was because it was Kaepernick, right? And then it was because it started to become like a bit of a political divide where if you were on the right,
you wanted to see the ratings go down a little bit because it kind of justified some of your political beliefs. And I just felt like that kind of falls to this like pulling of one stuff that'll happen. You're like, oh, my uncle doesn't watch it anymore.
Both sides though. You remember. You remember both sides because you remember the debate about, oh, the NBA is going to replace the NFL. It became a proxy culture debate. But all I'm saying is- That was another Cuban thing. That was another Cuban thing. Cuban was trying to say that. Yeah, he drove that.
So the first take. So like when we look at the ratings- part of it, I need, I need a little bit more data, but ultimately Because I am working on something on this. I'm not done yet. And it sounds like as an NBA guy, I could potentially be pushing it back against the idea that there's declining ratings. But here's what we do know.
Any declining rating or any declining rating forecast is irrelevant to the bigger business deals because you could have, as long as you have the live rights program and you have all of these games, you can say, all right, year to year, this is where we're at. Go back 10 years. This is where we're at. Why would you invest this? They just did the TV deal.
So to me, the TV deal and the ratings and the fact that it's been renewed, it tripled again. And it was beyond the projections because there was a long time we were like, why are some of these teams changing hands? Oh no, is the TV deal coming in way lower than they thought? Or some of these guys deciding to get out now because this is the decline.
The franchise acquisition bubble is finally starting to happen. And then none of that happened because the TV deal came in massive. So The reason I think it's important to go through all this stuff is, okay, fine.
Maybe it is a declining product in the way that we equate like what is successful and what is not successful based on, I think at times, some very outdated and domestic television numbers. But I can't sit here and say that anybody's wrong that's looking at it that way. The point is, is 350 million to Luke is irrelevant because the money's already backed in.
In four years from now of whatever that extension would have been, Luka's making less the same way the quarterback renewal cycle happens. We're like, I can't believe Jared Goff is making all this money. Look at that guaranteed money. And then three years later, you're like, that contract isn't even that bad anymore.
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