In this dynamic episode of The Segment, two of cybersecurity’s biggest names reunite with host, Raghu Nandakumara, for a no-holds-barred conversation: John Kindervag, the godfather of Zero Trust, and Dr. Chase Cunningham, aka Dr. Zero Trust. What unfolds is a fast-paced, insight-packed dialogue that spans decades of hard-earned wisdom, unexpected humor, and a shared mission to demystify modern cyber defense.John and Chase reflect on the global evolution of Zero Trust—from its scrappy beginnings to its widespread adoption by Fortune 500s, military leaders, and even elder care facilities. They dive into why context-driven maps are now indispensable, how graph-based security is reshaping the cyber terrain, and where AI and automation can give defenders a real edge. Expect candid takes on the limits of SIEMs, the failure of red teaming without strategy, and why defenders need to start thinking like attackers if they want to win.There’s personal reflection too—Chase shares why he was reluctant to pick up the Zero Trust torch, and John opens up about the real heart behind the strategy. With wit, war stories, and straight talk, they make a clear case: cybersecurity isn't about perfection—it's about deterrence, resilience, and knowing what truly matters. Topics Covered:The origin and global adoption of Zero Trust Why “good maps” are critical for cyber resilience Real-world applications of AI in cyber defense Why attackers often outmaneuver defenders—and how to change that The psychology of leadership in cybersecurity strategy From Chick-fil-A to Bletchley Park: the unexpected places Zero Trust shows up Chase’s take on stock-picking based on breach trends (yes, really) Resources Mentioned:Think Like an Attacker by Dr. Chase Cunningham John Kindervag’s Zero Trust 5-Step Model “Zero Trust Terrain & Holding the High Ground” LinkedIn Live Stay Connected with our host, Raghu on LinkedInFor more information about Illumio, check out our website at illumio.com

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