Sleep Series E2 | The Psychology of Insomnia (w/ Heather Darwall-Smith)
episode
The Thinking Mind: Mental Health & Personal Growth
1h 8m
1 speaker
8 chapters
transcribed 1 month ago
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What is the opening analogy Heather uses to describe insomnia and why does it matter?
I'll often use the analogy of a a bottle of fizzy drink that we get up in the morning and it's like you shake the you wake up and you the it's the third shake of the bottle. So cortisol's high, body pressure starting, and all the way through the day we shake that bottle. If the only time the first time we open that bottle is when our head hits the pillow, that's come complete carnage. This is insomnia of course. This is going to hit at three AM in the morning. So the question The question is how do you open the bottle all the way through the day? And it's bringing the awareness to that. It's amazing because we don't live in a world where that's that's considered normal.
Hello everyone, welcome back to the Thinking Mind podcast. My name is Anja and I'm a psychiatry registrar working in South London. And today I'm joined by Rosie Bluntstone, who's also a psychiatry registrar. And psychotherapy trainee working in North London. We're thrilled to be joined by Heather Darwell-Smith today. Heather Darwell-Smith is a UKCP accredited psychotherapist and sleep specialist who works with individuals with ADHD and sleep disorders, bridging the gap between mental health and sleep medicine. Heather is the author of two books, which we will link to if you'd like to read. For now, Now sit back, relax and enjoy this latest NR Sleep series. Heather, thank you so much for joining us today.
Thank you so much for inviting me on. I'm delighted to be here. So I'm super excited for our conversation today. You've got a couple of books out on sleep already and some projects on the way as well. And I hope that we can cover the thoughts that you have and the work that you do in this area to hopefully bring some practical ideas to people, but also have a bit of a reflection on. the issues that we have with sleep in our society uh more broadly. And I guess to begin, I'm really curious about your journey, because looking at the biography that you have on your website, it sounds like it it it has been a bit of a journey to to finding your interest in sleep. And I wonder if you could speak to us about what brought you to be as interested in sleeping as you are and do
the work that you do.
Gosh, that's that's a that's a big question. Um, because I don't have a a typical background in in this area, I suppose. So originally I my first career I worked in advertising. I was an art director, so completely non-science background. But over the years, I knew a very long, long time ago that I wanted to retrain as a psychotherapist. And at the same time when I started training, I trained as a massage therapist and did quite an in-depth um anatomy and physiology training. And I had a real light bulb moment when somebody explained how the stress response worked. And it was one of those sort of moments in time Like, oh my goodness. That's how that's how that's how that's how panic works and and and thing and that's how this stuff happens.
Because when I worked in advertising I had a period where I was having quite severe panic attacks and problems with my sleep and things. And suddenly it was it was like turning a key. It's like, oh, this this is really logical to me. Of course I couldn't sleep. And it it was it it was a real light bulb moment very, very early in my psychotherapy training. And then over time 'cause psychotherapy is it's t it takes five or six years to to train. And over time this this what became an interest became became something that I was really curious about because as a psychotherapist I was wondering If somebody can't if has has sleep issues, what is the nature of therapy? because um we are so changed when we can't sleep.
And that goes for the therapist too. So it really it really clarified, yes, this is this is the path I want to go on. And it's it's a little bit different as a psychotherapist to specialise in this way. But it's it just seemed From a relational perspective, if if somebody is in therapy and we're not thinking about what's happening with their sleep, well What are we doing? It's it's and so it it I walk a it's an interesting line to to walk because
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the opening analogy Heather uses to describe insomnia and why does it matter?
0:00–8:45
2
How did Heather’s career path lead her to specialize in sleep therapy?
8:45–16:31
3
Why does chronic stress throughout the day sabotage sleep at night?
16:31–24:48
4
How does CBT‑I (sleep restriction) work and why does it feel counter‑intuitive?
24:48–33:13
5
What simple daily practices (breathing, light exposure) can reset the sleep system?
33:13–42:03
6
How do ADHD and other neurodivergent conditions affect sleep timing and treatment?
42:03–50:19
7
Why is safety (physical and emotional) a core focus when designing a sleep plan?
50:19–58:55
8
Where can listeners find Heather’s books, website, and further resources?
58:55–1:08:34
Speakers
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