Computer philosophy writer and "founding father of virtual reality," Jaron Lanier, chats with Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel about why he's optimistic about the future. Lanier shares his thoughts on how the "manipulation economy" has reshaped the world we live in and why we should be controlling and profiting from our own data. Vote for Vergecast in the Webby's! as well as The Verge's Why'd You Push That Button? and our wonderful YouTube channel Verge Science Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.