Max Tegmark: Why AI Belongs Inside Physics, Not Computer Science
episodePreviously titled “Physics Absorbed Artificial Intelligence & (Maybe) Consciousness” — renamed by the publisher on Aug 3, 2026
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Why is AI considered the new frontier of physics?
When Michael Faraday first proposed the idea of the electromagnetic field, people were like, What are you talking about? You're saying there is some stuff that exists, but you can't see it, you can't touch it. That sounds like total non-scientific ghosts. Most of my science colleagues still feel that talking about consciousness as science is just bullshit. But what I've noticed is when I push them a little harder about why they think it's bullshit, they split into two camps that are in complete disagreement with each other. You can have intelligence without consciousness. And you can have consciousness without intelligence.
Your brain is doing something remarkable right now. It's turning these words into meaning. However, you have no idea how. Professor Max Tegmark of MIT studies this puzzle. You recognize faces instantly, yet you can't explain the unconscious processes. You dream full of consciousness while you're outwardly not doing anything. Thus, there's intelligence without consciousness, and consciousness without intelligence. In other words, they're different phenomena. Entirely. Tegmark proposes something radical. Consciousness is testable in a new extension to science where you become the judge of your own subjective experience. Physics absorbed electromagnetism and then atoms and then space-time, and now Tegmark says it's swallowing AI.
In fact, I spoke to Nobel Prize winner Jeffrey Hinton about this specifically. Now to Max Tegmark, the same principle that explains Why light bends and water may actually explain how thoughts emerge from neurons. I was honored to have been invited to the Augmentation Lab Summit, which was a weekend of events at MIT last week. This was hosted by MIT researcher Dunya Barodari. The summit featured talks on the future of biological and artificial intelligence, brain computer interfaces, and included speakers such as Stephen Wolfram and Andre. Andreas Gomez Emilson. My conversations with them will be released on this channel in a couple weeks, so subscribe to get notified. Or you can check the substack, KurtJimongle.com, as I release episodes early over there.
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The British accents are a bonus. So if you're passionate about expanding your knowledge and gaining a deeper understanding of the forces that shape our world, I highly recommend subscribing to The Economist. It's an investment into your intellectual growth, one that you won't regret. I don't regret it. As a listener of Toe, you get a special discount. Now you can enjoy The Economist and all it has to offer for less. Head over to their website economist.com slash TOE to get started. Make sure you use that link. That's www.economist.com slash toe to get that discount. Thanks for tuning in, and now back to the explorations of the mysteries of the universe with Mac. Take mark. Max, is AI physics? There was a Nobel Prize awarded for that, but what are your views?
I believe that artificial intelligence has gone from being not physics to being physics, actually. Uh you know, one of the best ways to insult uh physicist is to tell them that their work isn't physics. as if somehow there's a generally agreed on boundary between what's physics a and what's not, or between what's science and what's not. But I find like the the most obvious lesson we get if we just look at the history of science is that the boundary has evolved.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
Why is AI considered the new frontier of physics?
0:00–9:11
2
Is consciousness merely a byproduct of intelligence?
9:11–15:17
3
Can a falsifiable theory of consciousness be tested with the MEG helmet experiment?
15:17–27:53
4
How does moving beyond neural correlates create a new scientific paradigm?
27:53–37:36
5
Why are humans masters of underestimation in AI progress?
37:36–51:11
6
What are the true goals of AI – the serial‑killer problem?
51:11–1:04:04
7
How do Fermat’s principle and entropy explain the physics of goals?
1:04:04–1:17:18
8
What does the AI’s self‑discovered geometry reveal about intelligence?
1:17:18–1:43:53
Speakers
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