The Lawyer’s Theory of Trade | Diving In
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Hello, my love. I'm Ryan Weiss. And for the past 15 years, I've been an emotional intelligence coach and a spiritual guide. And I'm sharing with you my new podcast, Waking Up With Ryan. Waking Up With Ryan is a daily audio video podcast here to help you connect with yourself before the noise of the day takes over. So let's start our days together with a moment of calm that's just for you. Listen to Waking Up With Ryan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Yeah, I think we've been wildly successful.
That's Jamison Greer, Donald Trump's trade representative, appearing on The Daily, The New York Times podcast. And it's worth listening to because Greer isn't some random spokesperson that they trot out to read a talking point. He is, by all accounts, one of the central architects of Trump's tariff agenda. Maybe the central architect. So I want to use his interview with The Daily for what it is genuinely good for, to try to understand the person who's at the center of America's trade war, and more importantly, the worldview that informs it.
I've got to tell you, as I listened, I came to understand both of them a lot better. Here's what struck me. Jamison Greer is a lawyer, not an economist. Now, I mean that as a description, not really as an insult. He has a coherent worldview. He can argue it, and he can argue it hard. But time after time through that interview, I discovered that worldview rests on muddled thinking about what trade is, about who benefits, and what problem the policies that he's pushing... What problems are they even trying to solve? You see, Jameson Greer, the US trade representative, he sees the world the way a trade litigator sees it. There are clients, there are injuries, there are bad actors, there are grievances, and there are remedies.
And look, that lens, I bet it's useful for some questions. If another country, for instance, is subsidizing an industry or dumping its product below cost, breaking the rules, then yeah, I reckon a loyally mind would help you prosecute the case. If foreign government is cheating, you might need a legal response, so you might want to call Jamison Greer. But when you make that approach, your whole theory of trade, something happens. You see, every import starts to look like an injury. Every deficit starts to look like evidence. Every foreign gain starts to look like a domestic loss. That's how lawyers think. Now, we economists, we start somewhere else. We don't start by asking who hurt whom. Instead, we step back a level and we ask, why do people trade in the first place?
And when does that exchange between them make them better off? Look, the lawyer's narrow approach, it's not unique to Jameson Greer. You hear it everywhere. You hear it from the president, from politicians, from your uncle at Thanksgiving, from anyone really who has a gut feeling that if another country or other people are gaining, America and Americans must be losing. International trade's a complicated topic, which is why I want us... to listen carefully. So this is going to be a story in five parts. First, I'll make the case that trade enlarges the pie. Second, there's going to be a simple reminder. Consumers count too, and I want Jameson Greer to remember that.
How does Jamison Greer describe the purpose of tariffs and unilateral trade measures?
Third, there's one word that shows up a lot in rhetoric from Jameson Greer, J.D. Vance, and the entire Trump group. That word's cheap. We're going to talk about how to use that word carefully. Fourth, Manufacturing, yes, it matters, but nostalgia isn't policy and the past isn't the future. And fifth, deficits, trade deficits, they're not scoreboards. I'm Justin Wolfers, and I'm here to help you understand the world around you.
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–3:54
2
How does Jamison Greer describe the purpose of tariffs and unilateral trade measures?
3:54–6:42
3
Why does Justin Wolfers say Greer views trade like a litigator rather than an economist?
6:42–22:53
4
How does the economist’s 'enlarge the pie' view of trade differ from zero-sum thinking?
22:53–31:51
Speakers
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