Love on the Spectrum stars James B. Jones and Dani Bowman say the HHS secretary’s planned autism studies are making things worse for people with autism. This episode was produced by Avishay Artsy and Gabrielle Berbey, edited by Amina Al-Sadi, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Patrick Boyd and Andrea Kristinsdottir, and hosted by Noel King. Listen to Today, Explained ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. Transcript at vox.com/today-explained-podcast. Photo of "Love on the Spectrum" castmember Dani Bowman by Charley Gallay/Getty Images for Netflix. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What does RFK Jr. believe about autism?
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. believes autism is preventable. He believes science can find the root cause. And he believes the root cause is something in our environment. Here he is at a press conference last month.
This is coming from an environmental toxin. And somebody made a profit by putting that environmental toxin into our air, our water, our medicines, our food.
Right now, the science suggests there may be environmental factors, among other things, at the root of autism. But it was RFK's description of autistic people that stoked outrage. This is the same press conference.
Chapter 2: Why did RFK Jr.'s comments about autism cause outrage?
These are kids who will never pay taxes. They'll never hold a job. I'll never play baseball. I'll never write a poem. I'll never go out on a date.
On Today explained what RFK gets wrong according to science and according to some people who did date and who found love on the spectrum.
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You're listening to Today Explained. RFK Jr. 's conviction that autism is caused by something in the environment, in the air or water or vaccines, simply cuts against what most science suggests, that environment may be a factor. So where did he get this idea? Catherine Wu is a science writer for The Atlantic, and she recently set out to answer that question.
So it's not totally clear where and when this kernel got planted in RFK's head.
I think certainly we have to acknowledge that by the early 2000s, this idea that autism was maybe caused by vaccines, and this has been pretty thoroughly debunked over and over again, but this idea had sort of entered the mainstream in large part due to this since-retracted study published by Andrew Wakefield that seemed to draw that link.
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Chapter 3: What scientific evidence contradicts RFK Jr.'s claims?
The conclusion was that there is a bowel disease in children with autism which is new, which has not been investigated before, that this may well be related to the developmental regression since they had occurred at around the same time, and that the association, the parental association with MMR exposure needed to be thoroughly investigated.
He is a former physician who was at one point studying vaccines and autism.
A decades-old study that said vaccines cause autism is now being called an elaborate fraud.
The allegations against me and against my colleagues are both unfounded.
Did you have some sort of preconceived notion of a link between the vaccine, MMR, and autism before you conducted this study?
Absolutely not. Dr. Gupta, please, I urge you, go and read my book. You will understand it. Many people don't. The parents understand it. They get it because they've lived it.
This was a hugely problematic study. It turns out the data was cherry-picked and manipulated. And, you know, Wakefield himself had conflicts of interest that certainly made it in his best interest to seemingly find such a link.
You did have a lawsuit against manufacturers of the MMR vaccine, didn't you? I mean, didn't you have a financial conflict of interest?
If I could just answer, Anderson, the paper that was published in The Lancet received not one cent of funding from lawyers or litigants.
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Chapter 4: How is the Department of Health and Human Services approaching autism?
So it's going to be done by credible scientists, by the most credible scientists from all over the world. And we're going to do it very, very quickly.
Then later at a press conference, he was talking about looking through electronic health records.
Because of AI and because of the digitalization of health records and the mass of health records that are now available to us, we can do this much more quickly than has ever been done in the past.
kind of mining existing literature to see if there's a link that's been missed or hasn't been definitively pinpointed. And then there was additional talk out of NIH about how part of this effort may involve looking into private health data from pharmacies, hospitals, even smartwatches. But some of that was later walked back after a bunch of privacy concerns emerged. So
It seems like there is a lot of chatter about there being this incredibly ambitious, expensive, accelerated effort with a goal very clearly in mind. But I'm not sure a plan has really come into formation yet. And frankly, it may take until September for a good plan to come together, if that is indeed their intentions.
As they attempt to find the cause of autism, we know that RFK thinks vaccines cause it. Do we have a sense that he wants government scientists to prove that is true?
I would suspect that is influencing their thinking quite a bit. I mean, it's already been reported that he has tasked HHS with looking into that link, you know, under the supervision of RFK. This guy named David Geyer, who himself has a history of really hawking this idea that vaccines cause autism. Again, repeatedly disproved, but there are certain people who will not let that bone go.
And then, you know, with this new HHS-wide effort that's come into the news this month... Kennedy has not leveraged vaccines as often. You know, his discourse has primarily been around, you know, a quote unquote environmental toxin. He's talked a lot about this idea that someone in industry has been putting this out into the environment.
It's, you know, poisoning our kids and someone's making a profit over this. I do not know of any evidence that really strongly supports that. I don't know to what he's referring, but it seems very clear that no matter what toxin or toxins or exposures he has in mind, he does have a select few in mind, and he's already crafted the story that he is setting out to prove.
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Chapter 5: What are the concerns about RFK Jr.'s autism studies?
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Today Explained is back with James B. Jones, who works in technical support.
I've always enjoyed working with computers and electronics, always been very passionate about that.
and Danny Bowman, the founder and CEO of Dannymation.
I help students on the autism spectrum by helping them educate, elevate, and empowering them by helping them turn their passion in animation into a career with our one-on-one sessions and our animation camps.
Now, if you know those voices, and you very well might, it's because James and Danny are cast members on the hit show Love on the Spectrum about autistic people searching for love, which is not always easy.
Oh, yes. Well, I admit I was having difficulty with my search for love before I heard of the series. Actually, Love on the Spectrum has changed my life in so many ways. Yes, I've met new people. I've made new friends. And yes, I finally have found true love. I cannot say enough positive, wonderful things about Shelley. She's so amazing.
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Chapter 6: How has Love on the Spectrum impacted the lives of its participants?
Chapter 7: What role does the environment play in autism, according to RFK Jr.?
We each inspire the arts to be the best that we can be.
That sounds wonderful.
Dani, have you met someone on the show? Actually, for me, when it comes to finding the love, the person that I found, Henry, is outside of the show.
Ooh, cool.
We first met each other in person at the Huntington Park Police Department when his, um, when the police department did a fundraiser for autism acceptance and they were looking for a company or organization to help donate the funds, Henry and the Huntington Park Police Department chose Deanie Mason as the recipient of the funds. So as Henry and I first met, Oh, dear.
See, I fumble with my words. That's okay. I do, too, and I talk for a living. It's totally fine.
I do it also.
I think that's a pretty common thing. Keep going. Tell me about Henry. What's so cool about Henry?
What do you like about him? What I really like about Henry is that he's really kind. He's very understanding. He takes me out to, like, wonderful dates. Like, for example, he took me out to a wonderful... South Coast Winery as one of our getaways. He definitely makes my dating experience so magical.
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