Chapter 1: Who are the guests featured in this episode?
Welcome back. It is time for our Friday gathering. This week I'm joined from our Galway studio by Alan Dillon, Minister of State for Employment, Small Business and Retail and the Circular Economy, also Fine Gael TD for Mayo. And here in studio by Jennifer Whitmore, Social Democrat spokesperson for Climate, Environment and Energy and TD for Wicklow.
We're also joined by Jennifer Bray, Sunday Times political editor and Christina Finn, political editor with thejournal.ie. Good morning. You're all very welcome. Thanks a million for joining us. Alan, I might start with you first, if I may. Eurostat published new research on Wednesday confirming that Ireland has the highest cost for electricity in the EU. In the EU.
An issue that shows no sign of going away. So what are the government going to do about lowering those high electricity costs?
Well, firstly to say, David, is that we fully recognise that more families are under pressure, particularly when it comes to energy costs. We see energy prices now have increased across Europe, driven by international gas and oil markets. These are not decisions taken by government buildings.
And that's precisely why the government has already delivered one of the largest support packages across the EU, over 750 million euros.
None of which will address electricity costs.
Well, certainly what that will do is it will shield households, it will reduce their bills where possible, but it also provides support when needed the most and it's targeted. If you look at why our electricity costs are so high, wholesale gas prices have a major impact on energy prices in Ireland. And while hedging can cushion households from full volatility, it doesn't remove it completely.
So... That's why we may see suppliers' price increases in the coming months. And I know Minister O'Brien has written to the energy suppliers to make them aware that there is a real pinch point and challenge around Ireland's exposure to customers and to insulate them in some way. But also the CRU are also reviewing... competition within the retail market.
And we're working with the CCPC to ensure there's better transparency in regards to how bills are put together.
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Chapter 2: What recent research confirms about Ireland's electricity costs?
So, you know, the high gas price doesn't explain why we have the highest electricity prices.
And as I said, we are undertaking a piece of work with the CRU to look at the structural costs associated with electricity because it's really important for customers and households that they're aware of what they're actually paying for. And that's why also we're investing really significant money.
money over 19 billion euros in enhancing our grid to bring more renewable energies on stream while also investing record numbers in home retrofitting to support households to make them more warmer but also cheaper to heat and to run and you see through the warmer home schemes which are fully funded through SAAI we have a target of over 73,000 homes that we want to retrofit by the end of the year
And we'll continue to make substantial efforts in regards to home retrofits. We've increased the grants for heat pumps, for attic insulation and for wall insulation. And they're making a huge impact. And I think that's really, really important to recognise.
All very welcome. Jennifer Whitmore, why does Ireland have the highest electricity prices in Europe?
There are a number of reasons for it, and I can absolutely agree with the minister. It's not this government's fault that we're seeing these kind of energy shocks. But what I will say, it is this government's fault that they have not helped households become a lot more resilient to them. We saw these shocks after the invasion in Ukraine, and we have not seen any response.
real measures from government to insulate homes from shocks. And now people are facing it again.
Well, they've increased the fuel allowance and they've cut exhaust duty on petrol and diesel, which helps most households.
So these are very reactive measures. And whilst they were necessary in the context where we were with the incredibly high price rises, what we need is for the government to plan and to actually... future-proof people's homes. So Social Democrats are calling for a ā¬400 targeted credit for households to help them with their electricity bills.
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Chapter 3: How is the government addressing high electricity prices?
We want easier comparisons. We want to clear information for households and businesses. And we await the outcome of that review. It will be independently conducted. And we want to see where costs are coming from and to be better able to switch suppliers, to change plans, but also to cut usage at peak time. Because if we can empower businesses and consumers, that matters.
It is a big frustration for people. When I raised this in the DƔil with the ministry, he essentially said this has nothing to do with us. They're an independent organisation. And so I've requested that they come in front of the committee, the Climate and Energy Committee. That will be happening in a number of weeks because they need to explain why they are so slow with dealing with this issue.
So Jennifer Bray, those figures showing that Ireland has the highest electricity price in Europe, that's the sort of thing in the middle of an energy crisis due to other reasons, nothing to do with the government in fairness to do with Donald Trump. But the fact that we're at the highest in Europe, that's going to drive people mad, isn't it?
It is. I think that this and the cost of living, they're kind of the biggest issues at the moment that are on people's minds, really. And I think because it's so pressing and there's so many people who are genuinely really struggling to get by week to week, never mind month to month.
And even though it was mentioned there of the Energy Affordability Task Force, that was supposed to report much sooner than the end of this year, which it's now being pushed back to. And even the measures that they're considering, short term, medium term, long term, are still a bit vague and unknown.
And what the main issue there is, it's not going to be enough to tackle what is right now an energy issue within each individual household. So I think realistically, what you're going to see is a lead up to a budget where we're already hearing kind of a change of language around energy credits.
And I would say, realistically, you're probably going to see a budget where it is more than likely that some of those will figure again. I wouldn't be surprised if the government did genuinely look at the SOCDEM's proposal around more targeted measures because they, in recent weeks, have been criticising other parties beyond the SOCDEMs who called for energy credits that were universal.
You know, one of the things Simon Harris was saying was TDs don't need energy credits. So I wouldn't be surprised if you see measures around that. But again, it leads you to a situation where it's kind of short termism in politics. Again, we never seem to be able to tackle the long term issues with genuine optimism. Yeah.
So energy credits tackle the symptoms. They don't actually tackle the cause. But when the government and we saw the exchequer returns recently, the government has loads of money. So it's very difficult not to not to give belief that people are calling out for.
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Chapter 4: Why does Ireland have the highest electricity prices in Europe?
But look... And maybe public opinion has changed. It seems to be something that comes around every, you know, five to 10 years where we have discussion. But, you know, some polling suggests that people are open to it. What do you think, Jennifer?
Yeah, I agree with Christine. I do think it's one of those situations where even if you did progress and even if you didn't have loads of planning objections and various different issues, you're still talking about something that would be... 10 to 15 to 20 years down the line. So it's no immediate solution by any yardstick.
And the other thing is, we've seen often, and it is often the case in a way that isn't often fully appreciated, particularly by those of us who live in a bubble in Leinster House, and I include myself in that, that the public are often ahead of politicians when it comes to what's happening.
So I think a lot of people would look at what's happening in the Strait of Hormuz, realise that, you know, the world's economy is so easily held to ransom by two warring men, and they themselves need to make a shift in their own lives. You know, and that's when they consider their own homes, their own way of living, their own modes of transport.
But I still think there is an affordability issue in terms of retrofitting. I still think a lot of people actually genuinely can't afford it, even with grants and even with the loans.
OK, I want to move on to education and third level fees. Alan Dillon, a reduction in third level fees was an election promise. Looks like that promise is not going to be kept.
I don't think that's the case, David. I think Minister Lawless has indicated that nothing is off the table in regards to continuing the programme for government commitment around reducing the cost of college and fees. We have seen in the last budget a permanent ā¬500 cut. that has been delivered, it's baked in now and I think that matters.
But we also understand the challenges that families are facing and it's not just around the cost of fees, it's the cost of transport, the cost of rent, the cost of actually going to college. So we have introduced a number of measures. We see now that there's a higher grant around SUSY, particularly for students who are further away from college.
We've also widened the eligibility threshold for those to access SUSY. couples or households who are earning up to ā¬120,000 can qualify. And that certainly brings in a lot of those hard-pressed middle-income families.
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Chapter 5: What measures are proposed to help households with energy costs?
And they don't know how much money will be available to them, whether the government will keep their commitment.
OK, Christina, there might be a bit of gamesmanship going on here, do you think?
Yeah, I think it is unfair that things play out this way. But unfortunately, it feels like this is the way budget wrangling takes place. I wouldn't be surprised if the money is found somewhere down the back of the couch, albeit that this is to do with the Ā£646 million budget. Department of Education deficit and a levy being imposed on departments to come up with the money to fill that.
But we often see, I think, one say from the budget, you know, discussions like this, you know, question marks being put over, you know, commitments that has been mentioned in programme for government. you know, perhaps putting out the scaries there that this might not happen.
And then when it comes to actually going into the room with the finance minister and having those discussions, such as the outrage that you can point to over the last number of months, you couldn't possibly, you know, row back on that decision and something comes out of the bag at the end of the day.
Jennifer Bray, a Fine Gael backbencher attacking a Fianna FƔil cabinet minister. It was What does that say about the level of love and harmony within the coalition?
Heaven forbid this should happen. Not much, really. I think that's just exactly the way it operates between Fianna FƔil and Fine Gael. And I think Christina's spot on the money there. It's kind of raising the flag and going, oh, look, people are really annoyed about this. It's kind of a bold move, really.
And actually, there's a Fine Gael meeting of backbenchers coming up next week where they're going to all submit their budget demands and they all want everything. Everyone wants everything in the budget. So it'll be interesting to see how Simon Harris handles his first budget as Minister for Finance when his own party are stacking up the demands.
Decisions to be made still. Alan Dillon, one decision that has been made is the ending of support for Ukrainian accommodation. A lot of people unhappy about what this is going to mean for a rental market. If you have 16,000 people all of a sudden looking for rental properties that aren't there.
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