Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Now it's time for The Gathering, and this week I'm joined by Fianna Fáil Senator Mary Fitzpatrick, Sinead Gibney, Social Democrat TD for Dublin-Rathdown, Ashley Maloney, political reporter with the Irish Independent, and Harry Magee, political correspondent with the Irish Times. Good morning, you're all very welcome. What's the weather doing outside?
Lovely and sunny, actually, yeah. Rain stopped. There was some earlier, but none now.
All right. I want to kick off with this customs charge, €3 on any item coming from outside the EU. And it's per item, it's not per parcel. Mary Fitzpatrick, this kicks in on the 1st of July, which is next Wednesday, I think it's Thursday. Mm-hmm. It's mainly directed against non-EU sites like Timu and Sheen.
For a young shopper buying three or four small items of clothing, that could be an extra €9 or €12 a checkout. Is that not a stealth tax?
It's going to hit their pockets, yeah, absolutely. And it's going to make them, I suppose, think twice about it. value of the purchase. It's an EU wide initiative to, I suppose, protect EU jobs, Irish jobs, Irish retailers, Irish manufacturers, about 65. It's a closing a loophole, actually, in EU taxes. So products at the moment, about 65% of them coming into Europe and
Keep in mind, there's billions, billions of these small packages arriving, not just here in Ireland, but right across Europe every year.
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Chapter 2: What new customs charge is being introduced and why?
65% of them are being undervalued to avoid paying European taxes and European charges. And so what this will do is close the loophole and it is going to discourage. It's a bit like the plastic bag levy when that was introduced.
It's more like Donald Trump, though, isn't it? It's a protectionist levy that is going to be paid by consumers.
I'm not going to apologise for protecting Irish jobs and Irish retailers.
Do you think it'll work?
I think it will, yeah, because I think three euros on every item is not a small amount. Actually, I don't do any really online shopping, but I have three young adults in my house, so I hear the bell going. And yeah, I think it'll make them think twice. And landfill, you know, landfill, like we're all in a heatwave, right? Europe is melting and we're all conscious of climate.
And landfill is being like... filled with all of this disposable, you know, it looks good on the website, I'm sure, and all that. But like, do we need it? Do we really need it? And does it really bring us happiness? I think that's a big, I think that's a fundamental question we need to be thinking about our wellness as well.
But what about families who may rely on websites like this to get affordable goods and they're going to look at this and think they're probably blaming the government rather than the EU, but they say we're trying to make our household budget stretch further and we've been penalised for that?
I think the government, and I know the government, is alive to the pressures that are on households. Household budgets are under pressure.
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Chapter 3: How will the customs charge affect young shoppers?
And that's why government has taken measures and has supported households and is supporting businesses. But what we're doing here is actually protecting Irish jobs. Like employment and wages coming into a household are the most important thing. And if Irish jobs disappear and Irish retailers disappear, then you know what? Those households are going to be an awful lot worse off.
Okay. Sinead, what do you make of this?
Yeah, I mean, I would agree certainly that there's a jobs element to this because, I mean, the real people or the real cost of this, these goods, is the cost to the environment, the cost to the people who are in the supply chains, essentially people in some cases who are in slave labour.
And then, of course, the other cost is to those companies who are meeting the appropriate standards that we expect as European consumers. So I do agree that it should work as a deterrent because at the moment what we're seeing is just this massive inpouring of cheap, fast fashion, low quality goods that are ending up in landfills.
I mean, they go, maybe sometimes they stop on their way to the landfill at charity shops. People who frequent charity shops will see that, that these shops are just full of these goods at the moment. But I mean, for me, I think the supply chain issue, the ethical issues around the production of this material and the environmental cost is really one of the biggest focuses.
And absolutely, we need to address that. Of course, it's going to hurt people who are counting their pennies. But this is not the way to allow people to address cost of living.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of the EU-wide initiative on non-EU goods?
There are other ways. And as a party, we believe that's... in the provision of quality public services and in lowering costs for people on a day-to-day basis. So, you know, addressing the cost of living crisis, addressing rents and all of those things. That's where we need to do it.
OK, but, I mean, people who are buying this stuff probably know all about the environmental impact and they probably know all about the issues you just outlined about the supply chain. Is a €3 charge really going to make them change their habits?
Well, I... I don't know if I would make that assumption that everybody knows about it. And I think there has to be deterrence if it raises awareness amongst consumers that there are ethical issues. I mean, we saw the Corporate Sustainability Due Diligence Directive as this kind of first great white hope of how we would address some of these issues.
But unfortunately, it was watered down through one of the omnibus packages at EU level so that it really just doesn't have much of an impact at all anyway. But how we produce goods... needs to be in a sustainable way, and we're not addressing that.
So for me, this is one way of at least alerting people to the fact that people are being harmed in the production of these goods, the environment is being harmed in the production of these goods. So although it might be convenient, it is something that you need to consider further.
Okay, so you're in favour of this? Yeah. Okay. Aisling Maloney, is this going to change people's behaviour?
I think when you said there, whether people know or not, or whether three euro charge on each good, essentially, that they buy from some of these mega, mega mass producers like Timu and Sheen, just to call out, I suppose, what these mega producers are. I think what I'm seeing is willful ignorance by people, that they actually are well aware that, of the fact that they hear it all the time.
Fast fashion is bad for the planet, but there is a willful ignorance because it is so cheap that they're weighing up. Look, I only have certain amount of money. And yes, I understand that, you know, this is environmentally bad, but, you know, I really need that product. But that's the key. Do they really need it?
And actually, one thing I've noticed, even amongst like people my own age, like, you know, maybe 10 years ago, you would have like said, oh, I love your top. And you'd be like, thanks.
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Chapter 5: How does the customs charge relate to protecting Irish jobs?
I can't, it just, it just makes, go to a charity shop. Absolutely. There's enough clothes in the world. To suit you forever. And the amount of fashion, if you put, oh my God, the next trend, just put together something from the 60s and the 90s and you have the next trend.
We don't need to be... Yeah, well, my wardrobe is available for anybody who wants it.
The Bruce T-shirts.
Do you have any item that's less than 20 years old? Hold on there, we're going to get to you in a minute. But actually, the other thing is the quality of some of these things.
Oh, the quality is terrible. So, like, I went into a charity shop recently and I bought a beautiful Sinead Keary top for 20 euro and that retails in the shop for about 100. She's an Irish designer.
Thank you.
Yeah, so...
that was in the charity shop some people would look up their nose at going into a charity shop I went in and I bought a H&M skirt in there as well that H&M skirt was mass produced it was it's you know H&M's massive mega mega real tailor that was probably 20 euro I bought it for maybe 10 in the charity shop bing bang bon fabulous new outfit and like why do I need to go to Timu why do I need to go to Sheen but it's so attractive that's what I'm trying to get across and I think this 3 euro and addictive
They're mega platforms and they're trying to reel you in and they're keeping you on the platform. And one other thing, it's also the use of AI. So if I go online and I'm like, I want a navy corset top, I'm looking for an outfit at the moment, go on, it pops up, Timu, and it's like an AI image.
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Chapter 6: What concerns arise for families relying on affordable goods?
They will. That's what they'll do. So if you go into the Timu side at the moment, you'll see the first 10 will have local. So that means that any customs problems will be circumvented because you're sourcing them locally, even though they might have been produced in China. And Amazon has done that. And Sheen and Timu have local distribution centres as well.
But I think you'll have these big mega centres as a way of circumventing that. But not all, you know, it's not just Timu. the Chinese retailers versus European retailers. I mean, fast fashion and cheap fashion, pennies, for example, I mean, they have questions to answer in relation to sustainability, climate change.
Now, they have made a lot of effort to make sure that the actual garments are ethically produced. But there are questions in relation to disposal. And the cost of purchase is only some of the cost because there's a social cost as well. There's the cost of disposal. So and that's a huge cost. So that's a societal cost. And that has to be taken into impact. So I would agree with it.
But I just think the notion of sending 15 year olds into charity shop is just not on. They're not going to go there.
Chapter 7: How is the government addressing household budget pressures?
I don't agree.
I know 15 year olds that will. There's plenty.
That's a cultural thing though that we're allowing us all to run riot and everybody's running to get the newest nicest next thing that came up on the feed on these websites whereas it should be I don't think young people are that stupid and I don't think
But I do think the AI thing and the tech piece is really important. And unfortunately, right now, we're seeing the AI bill, which is going to regulate the governance of AI in this country, being absolutely rammed through the door with little parliamentary scrutiny right now. The text was published last Friday. We had to have amendments in by Wednesday before we even got to second stage.
And now those amendments are being read through committee and final stage on Tuesday, like 10 days, only four working days for us to actually scrutinise how this country is going to govern AI. So we have the government on one side saying how much they care about this, how concerning it is. And then they are ramming this through.
And this is exactly the kind of place where we can deal with these issues.
OK, just before we move on to another topic, Mary, one of the issues with this is that it will apply to stuff coming from the UK.
Yeah. Which is another consequence, another gift from Brexit.
Indeed. But that is going to cause problems for people. Sure. Yeah, it is. And you're saying tough.
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