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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Plus Katsastus. No, niillä kyllä homma pelaa. Mä oon käyttänyt siellä kymmenen vuotta ja aina on mennyt... Niinpä se kerran ei mennyt. Siinä oli jarrukinipi oli irti ja piti niin perilleen muista kolinaa. Tervetuloa Plus Katsastukseen. Varaa aika tai tule milloin hovittaa. Plus.fi
The war in Iran, what do you make of it?
Right now, I think it's a disaster. I don't think it was legal. I don't think it was justifiable. And I think a lot of innocent people are dying as we speak without any real justification.
Israel's war goals and interests are actually very clear. I'm very unclear as to what the U.S. wants.
Well, if it is the nuclear program, this is not the way to do it. Negotiations are the way to solve. Most experts say you cannot bomb away a nuclear program. It's in people's heads. All of the available evidence suggests he is losing. What do you mean? Strategic experts will point out that a country like Iran wins simply by surviving.
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Chapter 2: What are the implications of the war in Iran?
We have to admit that there have been fundamental failings on the left. For instance, having an open border.
There's no open border, Francis.
That doesn't mean it's open.
That just means they managed to come in illegally. That just means the border wasn't as secure as you wanted it to be.
Well, hold on a second.
Open border means I can just walk into America.
Sorry, you triggered me with open border. This episode is sponsored by our friends at Hillsdale College. Right after this episode, go check out their incredible online courses, which are absolutely free at hillsdale.edu slash trigger.
Mehdi Hassan, welcome to Trigonometry. Before we get into the meat of the interview, Iran, domestic policy, all the good stuff, tell us who you are and your journey through life.
That's a big question. Thanks for having me, guys. My name is Mehdi Hassan. I am the editor-in-chief of a media company called Zateo. I've been a journalist here in the US and in the UK for the past 25 years. I'm old. I used to be at MSNBC. I've done shows for Al Jazeera. I've worked at Sky News. I've worked all over the place. So I do interviews. I do shows. I write books.
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Chapter 3: What background does Mehdi Hassan bring to the discussion?
And I think a lot of innocent people are dying as we speak without any real justification.
Why do you think it's happening?
Many reasons. One of the main reasons was expressed by Secretary of State Marco Rubio before he tried to walk it back, where he said that we were told, this is Rubio's words, I'm paraphrasing, that Israel was about to attack Iran. And if they had attacked Iran, Iran would have attacked us. So we decided to attack first, which is kind of insane on multiple levels.
Number one, if you thought Israel was going to attack Iran, just stop Israel from attacking Iran. It's your client state. Number two, imagine if you're at home and you're like, my brother's about to get drunk and drive the family car and wreck it. I'm going to wreck it first. So it's a bizarre argument to say they were going to attack, so we attacked first. So Israel plays a big role in this.
I don't think it's the only role. Joe Kent, who has just quit the Trump administration, director of counterterrorism, he wrote a letter saying, it's all Israel. Israel manipulated us into what? I think that takes away too much responsibility from Donald Trump, from Lindsey Graham, from the US government and hawks in the US who have long wanted a confrontation with Iran.
This has been building for years. We're all, I think, of a similar age group. You know, we're all old enough to remember the Iraq war. We're old enough to remember George Bush, Dick Cheney. They wanted to go into Iran at the time, too. They didn't. George Bush was smart enough not to do that after the disaster in Iran.
Benjamin Netanyahu is on the record saying, I've dreamed of attacking Iran for 40 years. Trump's the first president to let me do it.
Yeah. So those are all points that I wanted to discuss with you, but I'm not very clear on why you think it's happening, because I agree with you, a lot of people talk about Israel, but as you said, Israel is a client state of the United States, and quite a lot of people act as if it's the reverse now, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me just from the understanding of how these dynamics work.
So why would President Trump, who's on the record repeatedly saying no more foreign wars, no more forever wars, who got rid of all the neocons within his administration from the first one, why would he do this now? I think now is the good question, Constantine.
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Chapter 4: Why did Mehdi Hassan move from the UK to the US?
If we're going to spend an hour doing psychoanalyzing Trump, it's going to be difficult. I think he is someone who does not want to accept defeat. The worst thing in his life is to be a loser. The guy doesn't accept he lost the 2020 election. Still ranting on about that. The idea that he would lose to the Iranians, and he is losing right now. Let's just be very clear.
All of the available evidence suggests he is losing. What do you mean?
Chapter 5: How does the US-Iran conflict affect global politics?
What are his goals in Iran? We don't know because he's never really stated them. But if it's destroying Iran, he's failed. He posted a couple of weeks ago, I've destroyed 100% of Iran's military capability. Okay, then what are we watching every day land on Gulf countries? What are we watching happening in the Strait of Hormuz? He's alienated his allies.
Iran's nuclear enrichment, whatever they have still left over, they still have. They're still hitting Gulf countries. Gulf countries are furious. So I think he's losing. And, you know, people like You know, strategic experts will point out that a country like Iran wins simply by surviving, right? Because they're the weakest, smaller power. So I think he's in a bad state.
I don't think he's going to give up because he can't handle the defeat. And by the way, it's a U.S.-Israeli war, right? And a lot of people have pointed out that the U.S. and Israeli interests are not the same.
Our strategic interests are not Israel. That's very clear that they're not. And I think that divergence is one of the reasons people keep saying, you know, Israel tricked Trump into this war. Or bullied. I think one of your guests on your show recently talked about how he bullied him. And that's where they lose me because I don't understand what this supposed mechanism is by which Israel...
Bullies America.
Well, I don't know about the word bully, but let me just say in terms of tricked or manipulated, this is not a conspiracy theory. The beauty of these Republicans, and you're in DC, I know you're going to be speaking to Republicans. The only redeeming feature of the Republican Party right now, they just say the quiet part out loud. People like me don't need to speculate or come up with theory.
They just say it. So Lindsey Graham told the Wall Street Journal that I went to Israel and Israel showed me intel that made me think we've got to go to war. That's bizarre. A United States senator went to a foreign government for intel. Then he says, I met with Netanyahu and I coached him, his words, not mine, on how to persuade Trump to get into this war.
Again, bizarre that a United States senator and a foreign leader is discussing how they're going to coach, how they're going to persuade, manipulate a sitting president into war. So they're saying this stuff out loud. I'm not absolving Trump of responsibility, but nor am I saying Israel didn't play. Would we be in this war were it not for Israel? No, I think that's very clear.
And by the way, if we stop the war tomorrow, just one last point, if Trump would say, we're done, we're over, then one of the reasons I think he's not is because he's been told the Israelis aren't stopping. And therefore, as long as the Israelis go, we go.
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Chapter 6: Who is John Ossoff and why is he relevant in the Georgia Senate race?
There's a guy, John Ossoff in Georgia, who's about to be in a very tight Georgia Senate race. He's Jewish. He's young. He's centrist. He's not on my side of the political spectrum. He's very charismatic. He could be the candidate if he wins in Georgia. He could change things around. We don't know.
Do you think when you look at people like Zoram Amdani, do you think... I wish he was born in the US so he could run for president. Go on. Do you think that could be the future of the Democrat Party, that kind of very left-wing, progressive politics? Or do you think that in order for the Dems to win, they need to be more pragmatic and they need to attack the center?
I don't know what the center is anymore, to be honest, in the crazy world we live in now. And I know you guys are based in the UK, where there's five parties now fighting for dominance. I think the old, old, old ways of thinking about politics are gone. What does center mean in the age of Trump? I think what matters is, are you anti-establishment or are you pro-establishment?
I don't think it matters. I think left and right is less relevant than are you anti-establishment or pro-establishment. Are you a populist or are you not a populist? I think that's what Mamdani proved in New York. Mamdani got a bunch of Trump voters So did AOC. There's Ocasio-Cortez Trump voters. They exist. There are Trump-Mamdani voters. Why?
Not because they agree with his socialist policies, but because they see him as an outsider. They see him as someone who takes on the establishment.
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Chapter 7: What does the future of the Democratic Party look like?
They see him as someone who speaks his mind and doesn't talk like a consultant with boring talking points. That is going to be the person who emerges and is really going to occupy the ground, center or left, come 2028, if that person exists. I think Americans are fed up. with politicians. They're fed up. We talked about moneyed interests earlier. They're fed up with money in politics.
They're fed up with foreign wars. We didn't talk about the fact that this Iran war is the most unpopular war of my lifetime. I've never seen a war in the US where the public doesn't get behind it. Once troops are committed, they're behind it, even if they're skeptical like Iraq. Nope, not this time. They are consistently anti-war, the American public.
Consistently anti-war, consistently anti-billionaire, consistently anti-establishment and anti-DC. Who is the candidate in either party who's gonna monopolize? Trump did a great fake con job of being, I'm gonna be the outside guy, even though he gives tax cuts to billionaires, enriches himself.
But he played the part to some people of being, I'm the guy who's gonna go shake things up and burn it down. Who's actually gonna do that?
And who's gonna do it on the left? Well, there's a couple of points I want to jump in. I mean, one of them is the anti-war thing.
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Chapter 8: How does public perception impact the Democratic Party's stance on immigration?
It's an interesting point about the broader sweep of the entire country. The Republicans are overwhelmingly in favor of this war. We agree. And the Democrats are overwhelmingly against it. And I imagine that's partly to do with the person who is doing it. I think a lot of Republicans support it.
Oh, they would be opposed to it. If Kamala Harris was bombing Iran...
Likewise, a lot of Democrats would probably support it if it was being done. 100% Chuck Schumer would be behind this war if it was a Democratic president. So I don't think that's a reflection on the war as much as it is on the public.
But you're talking about politicians. I'm talking about the public as a whole, whether Republican or Democrat, are tired of this war.
No, no.
I know the polling shows Republicans are behind Trump, but I think that's because it's Trump. That's what I'm saying.
But I don't think they support war. I think there's a general principle. I also think a lot of Democratic voters are against it because it's Trump's war.
Agreed, but I also don't think they would be enthusiastically for it, the voters. I think voters across the board. I've not met enthusiastically pro-war people in this country outside of media green rooms.
I have. I mean, we've met people who just go, you know, you support your country at a time of war. I support the president.
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