Chardonnay Redemption, Port Deep Dives & the Trouble with Wine Awards
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Why does Michael actually like Chardonnay after the Amphora‑aged Volta tasting?
You're listening to Two Guys Talking Wine with Michael Pincus and Andre Proulx. I need to start this episode with an urgent, important, critical message from Two Guys Talking Wine. Michael Pincus does not, in fact, hate Chardonnay. I... I know that. It happened. I was at a tasting that you weren't at recently and another winemaker was joking with me about your dislike for Chardonnay. And I just, I need you to know on the record, I had your back where I was just like, well, Michael doesn't actually, actually hate Chardonnay.
We took that a little far and for a little too long. I was just at the All Canadians. I judged a flight of 24 Chardonnay.
Oh, that's it?
That's all that I was given. And, you know, you get the key later. Turns out I liked an Anfora Chardonnay.
Yeah, I mean, the Amphora-made wines are kind of like orange wines as well, where it's just like you expect them to be messed up. I know you and I didn't agree on this, but Volta, a new winery in Prince Edward County, I loved that. the Amphora Chardonnay.
I know you weren't. That's the one.
Okay, because when you, okay, so I have a feeling you were drinking with your eyes when you drank the sample. Could have. Because I remember you telling me that you thought that that wine was bad when you first tasted it, and I thought, I was like, Michael, what's wrong with you? Or I got a different vintage or something. No, it's the same vintage. It's their first one. It's... There are some interesting things happening at Volta. I'm sure we'll touch on that at a later date. But before we move on to that, we do just have a bit of ground to cover.
What new barrel samples did Flat Rock showcase for the 2025 vintage and how have Ontario Chardonnay and Cabernet Franc evolved since 2010?
You and I recently did what's now our annual tasting at Flat Rock.
Yeah, kind of enjoying the annual tastings of Flat Rock. You get to see what they've done. That new facility at the back where they do the tastings, really, really nice, and how it looks over the vineyard. Yep. Yeah, and we tasted the new versions of, and they bring out, which is really neat, I'm not really sure where they go. There's an argument at Flat Rock about what's 10 years, so...
Well, there's no way that 2017 is 10 years ago, given that we're at the beginning of the 2026.
17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25. You stop. 26.
You stop. No, because we're not at the end of 2026. That wine wouldn't have been harvested until the fall and it wouldn't have been vinified until the following year. So it's nine years at that. Wow.
That's where they started counting.
I mean, you and I, we've talked a lot about... Those wines are holding up, by the way. Yeah, that's it. I was about to say, you and I, we've talked quite a bit about aging Chardonnay, and we're going to talk about the experts tasting, because I did talk about aged Chardonnay at the experts tasting, but... I think we're starting to see, you know, I often say that when I started writing about wine in 2010, that I was really fortunate to get in at 2010, because that is when the Ontario wine industry really entered this adolescence. I think it was still a little awkward, a little quirky, but for the most part, like, its personality was really starting to come through more. I can even remember, even certain wineries who specialize in Syrah, back in 2010 when I first started writing about wine, you would still get some inconsistencies, like tasting 2008, 2009, or 2011, getting a little bit of bell pepper in with the Syrah.
But by the mid-10s, by 2015, I don't think there's anyone making Syrah anymore. Um, that has a reputation staked on Syrah that's making underripe Syrahs.
It's been. Forget, forget the, the, the bell pepper in the Syrah. We were making very Chinon style Cabernet Franc, uh, with a lot of that, uh, herbal, you know, green pepper note. And, uh, it's all but gone these days.
Yeah.
Like in a, in a, in a weak vintage. Can I use the word now? Or is that... Cool vintage. In a cooler vintage. I know you're very big on me using bad versus good, so I was going with weak, and you didn't like that now.
Well, no, but I mean, it does inspire something.
In those vintages...
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
Why does Michael actually like Chardonnay after the Amphora‑aged Volta tasting?
0:06–1:53
2
What new barrel samples did Flat Rock showcase for the 2025 vintage and how have Ontario Chardonnay and Cabernet Franc evolved since 2010?
1:53–4:42
3
How is André’s 2024 Rosé report shaping up and what trends are emerging in Ontario rosés and sparkling wines?
4:42–8:21
4
What surprises emerged from the Experts Tasting panel – especially the sommelier vs. winemaker split on Chardonnay and the library tasting of aged Canadian wines?
8:21–10:42
5
Which wines stood out at the All‑Canadian Wine Championship and why is the surprise Sauvignon Blanc ice‑wine win significant?
10:42–14:51
6
Why does the Ontario Wine Awards medal inflation (92% of entries medaled) matter and how does it affect the industry?
14:51–18:11
7
What are the key differences between Kopke and Ramos Pinto ports, and how can a port reduction be used for a braised‑lamb recipe?
18:11–21:12
8
How does the new Copper‑Pot Irish‑style whiskey from John Sleeman & Sons compare to Nikka and why is it worth trying?
21:12–45:03
Speakers
2 identifiedMore from Two Guys Talking Wine
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