Political scientist and historian Norman Finkelstein joins this special edition of UNAPOLOGETIC that marks two years since the October 7 Hamas-led attack and Israel’s devastating retaliation against Gaza, which the majority of genocide scholars around the world have labelled a genocide.In this nearly three-hour conversation, we ask whether Hamas regrets its actions, probe the realities of Trump’s Gaza plan - and question if this is just another ruse to create cover for more of Netanyahu’s atrocities.Norman laments the depth of Israel’s brutality over the past 24 months and the roles of Israeli society, Arab states, Western governments, and the media in enabling it.He also reflects on the collapse of international law and shifting global politics.We discuss whether recognition of Palestine makes any difference, where the genocide leaves the future of the Palestinian liberation struggle, and why the horrors of Gaza defy facts alone.

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