In this episode of the UX Fika podcast, I sit down with Joe Macleod, founder of andEnd and pioneer of Endineering — a practice focused on designing how products, services, and relationships end.Joe has spent more than three decades working across digital, physical, and service design, including leading design at ustwo. Today, his work centres on something most organisations tend to avoid: what happens at the end. When a customer leaves. When a product is no longer used. Or when a service is no longer needed.We talk about why endings are often overlooked in design, and what it means when businesses focus almost entirely on acquisition, engagement, and retention, but not on letting go. Joe shares how poorly designed endings can create frustration, waste, and broken relationships, and why more thoughtful off-boarding can actually build trust, loyalty, and long-term value.We also dive into sustainability, consumption, and responsibility, and how designing better endings is not just a user experience challenge, but a business and societal one. Joe explains how Endineering helps organisations think beyond the moment of use, and consider the full lifecycle of what they create.Along the way we talk about behaviour, habits, and why people often hold on to things longer than they should. We also touch on Joe’s journey from leading large design teams to focusing on a niche that didn’t exist before, and what it takes to build a new category around something most people haven’t yet named.I absolutely loved this conversations and it’s intersection with storytelling, and why how things end matters just as much as how they begin.Plus:☕️ Why coffee and a chocolate ball is his go to fika⭐ Why get out of your head and that everything ends is worth rememberingWhat we cover:02:22 The Importance of Endings08:26 Exploring Consumer Experiences and Off-Boarding15:12 The EuroStack16:57 The Role of Death in Design and Society20:01 Justice and Measurement in Consumer Impact25:56 Innovations in Endings and Off-Boarding Experiences31:55 The Emotional Weight of Endings35:25 The Importance of Endings in Storytelling38:09 Consumer Lifecycle and Brand Experience41:18 Historical Perspectives on Consumption44:32 The Shift Towards Sustainable Consumption47:34 The Role of AI in Modern Relationships52:55 The Significance of Complete Stories57:01 The Future of AI and Its Implications01:05:02 The Role of AI in Human Connection01:06:35 Living in Sweden: A Personal Journey01:08:02 Digital Identity and Its Importance01:09:26 Self-Publishing: The Author's Journey01:13:22 Navigating Social Media and Marketing Challenges01:18:25 Future Perspectives: Hope and Concerns01:22:10 Life Lessons and Personal Reflections01:24:00 Building a Business: Skills and NetworkingWhere to find Joe & his work:Joe on LinkedInandEnd on LinkedInandEnd's websiteThe Endineering bookEnds bookEnds ebook - 25% off discount code: NCKEVEndineering ebook - 25% off discount code: NCKEVWhere you’ll find Anna & UX Fika:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Anna on LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠UX Fika website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠UX Fika on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠UX Fika on LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The UX Fika Digest newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Here's a taster of what UX Fika offer:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Storyboarding Presentations & Deliverables course⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Storytelling For Effective Meetings & Presentations Course⁠⁠⁠⁠ - new cohort starts 11 May

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