Valuetainment
"Enemy Within The Ranks" - Former Levi’s Exec EXPOSES Corporate ROT That KILLS Companies
30 Jan 2026
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Brad, I would like to start off with this story first. And Rob, if you want to pull up this tweet, Jennifer say, so I see this tweet from Tom. Tom puts it up. I take a look at it. And I said, I think we need to read this on the podcast on Business Wednesday. And let's process it together and let's see how the audience also reacts to this.
So Jennifer Say says, when I became the CMO of Levi's, at about two months in, I had some mid-level know-it-all come into my office, tell me everyone hated me. I was steering the ship into oblivion. She told me everyone knew I was doing a terrible job. The brand had been in decline for over 10 years when I had done in my first two months says no one could go on trips. This is what she said.
Say no one could go on trips anymore unless they had a roll at the photo shoot or event. No more boondoggles. So this is like we're just going to hang out and nothing happens. No drinking at events or concerts. We were hosting. We were there to work, not party. Says marketing needs, say marketing needed to feature factual, actual product in the ads.
Say we needed to move away from dark and moody and into the realm of fun because people have fun in jeans. Awful, right? She wanted me to know, she said she was trying to help.
Chapter 2: What challenges did Jennifer Say face as CMO of Levi's?
She put her feet on my desk while saying this. Needless to say, this was not a person who was very good at her job. And I wasn't doing mine to be liked, so I didn't care if everybody hated me. I was trying to turn a business around that had been fallen, flailing. I took the responsibility seriously. Six years later, we had a very successful IPO. Two years after that, I became the brand president
These people complaining about a new leadership are lame. They always do it. They want it how it was, even if how it was wasn't working and it was even lamer. It's lamer that Variety writes about it. She's talking about Barry Wise. So, Brad, has this ever happened to you where you're in a leadership situation, you come in, you're trying to change things around.
and somebody sits there and tells you, Brad, you have no clue what you're doing. This is not the right way to do it. Your team doesn't like you. You've got to change. You've got to listen to me, Brad. I know what's good for you. How do you handle it if this has ever happened to you before?
Well, I mean, it has happened most definitely. The way I handled it was to just ultimately get rid of the individual because that's a clear indication that you've got an enemy within the ranks, especially if they're putting their feet on the desk. Like, that's just straight disrespect. And, again, I think if you have confidence in where you're going, you just keep pressing forward.
Distractions are inevitable. I just eliminate the noise. Immediately? Immediately. So you're not even giving this person a second chance? If they were the one that knew everything, they'd be in the seat I'm in. Okay, fair enough. Tom, where are you at with this?
Well, I agree with that and more. I love the fact that Jennifer Say went out to say this and to encourage people that are coming into a business to turn it around. And the fact that the business was flailing and not doing well means people weren't doing their jobs. And then this person...
puts their feet up on my desk to tell me about this and to completely assure any modicum of respect for what my role is there that's three strikes you don't leave my office with a job i would just say respectfully this place hasn't been working you were part of it i love the fact you're putting your feet up on my desk you're trying to tell me how to do it i'm going to save several steps here
You are an at-will employee in this country. And guess what? I am relieving you of the terrible obligation to get up and be to work on time. It stops here. I'm serious. I would conduct a smooth, elegant departure discussion at that moment. Jennifer Say coming out and talking about this, this is bold. And Jennifer is a liberal. She's a self-identified liberal.
But she's a leader talking about doing the right things of leader. You don't have to agree politically with people on people to do the right thing and to drive your organization. I think conservative values help. I think adherence to capitalism helps. But you don't have to be all that. Look at what she did. I love this and I applaud it. By the way, you know what she did?
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Chapter 3: How did Jennifer Say respond to internal criticism?
The market is brutal. The market will tell you who is right and who is wrong. If you want to be right, go prove it. But maybe he's right. Maybe you're right.
Chapter 4: What strategies did Jennifer implement to turn around Levi's?
But someone's going to be right and someone's going to be wrong. Years ago when I was becoming a broker, this is, I'll give you the exact month. It's December of 03. I become a broker, and one of my guys that was one of my best guys, he has a choice to stay with me or he has a choice to go work with somebody else. That was the exchange when he become a broker. His name is James.
Good-looking South African guy, prospect him and his wife at Universal Studios while they were making out in the elevator nonstop. They're kissing, and I'm with my girl at the time. I'm like... They're kissing for 30 seconds where it's getting a little bit uncomfortable. You know, Brad, when somebody does that in front of you, you're like, can you kiss for a second, maybe three seconds?
30 seconds macking, right? I said, are you guys okay? I said, what's up with you?
In an elevator.
We just got married tonight. I said, you guys just got, what are you doing at Universal Studios? Well, we just, you know, we kind of did it. We didn't tell the family.
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Chapter 5: How do leaders handle resistance from their teams?
I said, okay, I recruit the guys, a future commodity broker. He comes in. I'm a greenie getting into the insurance space. And he says to me when I got promoted, Patrick, Let's face it, we both know her and I are going to be way more successful than you in this business. We helped you become a broker, but there's no way we want to work with you.
We're going to go work with this other lady named Jamie. And I said, okay, listen, it's your choice. I can't do nothing about it. Tom, this is December of 03. How old am I? I'm 25 years old. I'm looking at this guy telling myself, this mother, you know, I'm just going off of my mind. I said, okay, but there's a part of me in my mind, guess what it's saying? saying, maybe he's right.
What if he's right? What if this is going to happen? And then guess what happened three years later in the market? It was not even a conversation. I don't know where he's at. I think he's in Vegas right now. Sweetheart of a guy.
Chapter 6: What does it mean to have an 'enemy within the ranks'?
Loved the guy. Was a great guy to hang out around. But Jennifer had to go and prove the fact that I'm the right leader for this company. If she didn't, the other person is right. So good for Jennifer for doing that. Sometimes as a leader, you have to make tough decisions, even though your team may not support it in the short term.
But midterm, long term, you're going to earn a lot of moral authority and respect if you end up proving your philosophies right. That's exactly what she did, and I'm proud of this story. I wanted to share with them. Brad, do you want to add anything to it? I want to know what happened. What did she do? Is the person fired? Oh, she fired him right off the bat. Perfect.
Yeah, she fired him right off the bat. And obviously she wasn't there longer. And now, you know, she ended up.
She became president of Levi's.
Yeah, that's pretty big.
Now, a question, like to slightly play devil's advocate, where's the line between giving feedback and being, I know there's disrespectful things in there, but, you know, you're not saying that you're like just straight up against feedback and, you know, pointing out blind spots, right?
Let me give you an example because you're a national security guy with politics. Right. Trump gets in first term. Everybody tells him, listen, this isn't New York. Remember when he first got in? This ain't New York. This ain't real estate. Here's how we do things. And he's sitting there saying, you're part of the problem. You are the establishment. You want me to listen to you?
You're out of your flipping mind. And that's the fight. Right. with the people that are part of the country club mentality that this is what we do, and I got the car. Don't ruin our lives because we get to take advantage of all this other stuff. No, no, no, no, no. I'm here. We're changing the rules, and obviously there was a massive disruption. But be respectful.
If somebody wants to give an idea to us, you give me ideas all the time. We sit down. We have conversations. If you're respectful, they'll entertain it. Putting your feet up and saying nobody likes you and all this other stuff, you better be right about what you're talking about. Folks, once a year, we host an event called the Sales Leadership Summit.
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