Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Indie games versus AAA. Is one better than the other? From cutting-edge graphics and unbelievable highs, AAA gaming has given us some of the best games of all time. But indies give us heart and passion, art and music, and sometimes hit way harder than we think.
Today, we're taking this age-old debate to court and hearing the case of Indy versus AAA. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your judge, Josh. And joining me, he wasn't sure how he felt about defending AAA titles until I reminded him how much time he put into Destiny and Destiny 2. And then he remembered how much he loves live service games. It's Ryan. Wait. Wait.
Where the heck is Ryan, dude?
Okay. What? I'm here, Your Honor. I'm sorry. Are we good? Did I miss anything? Where have you been? How's your security here? Are you pretty good? Yeah, this is a legal court. I understand, Your Honor. I apologize. I was delayed.
for court this is important what the heck I plead with you your honor please okay well you catch your breath while I introduce this other gentleman that wasn't late and joining us he's the man that's never met an indie he didn't love well at least he's good at faking it it's Ace listen your honor I would like to call for a mistrial as my opponent here was late Yeah. Late to his own court date.
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Chapter 2: What are the arguments for the importance of AAA games?
You know, that will be taken into consideration, council. Don't you worry. Do you guys have a pen? Does anyone have a pen?
No! What? Oh, no, I got one. I got one. Okay. Hey, did you guys know if the Yankees won last today? The Yankees? That's baseball. Yeah, no, they didn't. Never mind, never mind. Don't worry about it.
It's so fun.
Something's going on here. All right, you know what? I'm the judge today. I demand order in this court while I welcome everybody in. Welcome to game court, everybody.
We're back. This is going to be a blast. Look, our first game court was a lot of fun. We love these debates that gamers have. And man, we have a debate for the ages with indie expert Ace here to defend all things indie. Ryan looking like he's afraid of something. You keep looking over your shoulder. Do you owe somebody money?
No, no, no.
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Chapter 3: How do indie games compare to AAA titles in creativity?
No? Okay. No, no, no.
Okay. Are you prepared for this?
Yes, yes. Your Honor, I was not in the vicinity of Wrigley Park from 2 to 4 last Saturday. You don't need an alibi for this. Oh, okay.
Are you in the wrong court? Oh, no, no.
This is game court, sir. Game court. Yes, game court. Apologies.
All right. Just make it.
Okay.
It's so stupid.
oh man all right listen welcome in everybody i i we're gonna argue for those that missed the first game court episode we're back the the goal of this is to argue things that gamers argue about i get to be today's judge and i am not going to be a kind judge i can tell you that i will say this as the judge I am actually 100% impartial to this argument.
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Chapter 4: What are the main points supporting indie games?
All right, you boys ready to get into this? Ryan, you look like you're settled down now. Yes, sir. You're in the right place. Yes, I am here. Ace is like, bro, I've never done this before. I don't know how I feel about arguing with somebody. I'm the least argumentative of us all, I think. Yes, that is very true. All right, well, I'll tell you what, man. You guys, Ace, why don't you start us off?
Why don't you give your kind of opening statement on why you think that indies are better than AAA games?
All right. Your Honor, esteemed members of the jury, today I stand before you not merely as a defender of our pixelated dreams, our crowdfunded hopes, but as a lover of the freedom of creativity and artistic integrity in the gaming innovation world.
I stand in defense of indie games, the underdogs of the passion projects, the soul of our new industry, and I contend that in many ways they are far superior to AAA games. Starting off, of course, with Exhibit A, creative freedom versus the corporate formula of gaming.
AAA titles are built on the investments of the people who want to see them succeed, not on the love they have for the gaming world and the games they create. What say you to this, Ryan?
Ryan? Your opening argument, good sir.
Well, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, thank you for having me here today. Sorry for my abrupt entrance, and I apologize again for being late.
It's Ryan. We're used to it.
That's pretty good. You're breaking character.
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Chapter 5: What are the counterarguments for AAA games?
I'm sorry. I had to. It was just right there. It was teed up, but I couldn't not swing at it, man.
Okay, go ahead. Sorry. Back to your opening statement.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, wouldn't it be nice to live in a land of sunshine, fairies, and rainbows? I, for one, would absolutely enjoy such an experience, but we don't. We live in the real world where pride, passion, and excitement does not make a good game, does not make quality graphics, and does not make my eyes stop from bleeding.
Ladies and gentlemen, AAA games are where they are because they are that. They are AAA. They are quality. They are graphically, visually, a masterpiece in most cases. So I would like you today to consider not just if, but why AAA games are better than indies.
All right, strong arguments, you two. So this, you guys have presented the arguments. The case in front of us is, are indie games better than AAA games? All right, I'll hear arguments. Who wants to go first? I will allow my opponent the first rights. Okay, so Ryan, you're up, man. Argue your case as to why AAA is better.
I think we're gonna first start with just overall quality of the game, visually and gameplay. AAAs tend to offer the ability to have a substantial budget difference from our indie counterparts there, allowing them to develop some of the most innovative and beautiful things we have ever seen in all of gaming. This is one area that indie games just, no matter what, cannot touch. Yeah.
You know, a broken clock is right twice a day. You'll get those gems with indie games. I'm not going to take away from them.
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Chapter 6: How do budget and resources affect game quality?
But in the AAA games are far superior.
So they're far superior because they're graphically better.
Oh, one among many other reasons.
Oh, okay. Well, AAA titles are built on investment risks within their management. They're focus tested and equally greenlit by their sequels by spreadsheets. As a result, we get annual franchises that get more and more crappy every year. You don't get that with indie games.
indie games you get a hit because that was the one sole project a team worked on that they truly cared about and they wanted to put a good game out in the world triple a council i'm gonna have to interject something here i have a question for you uh on your case and something that you just said you said that uh indie games are are good uh and how do you explain the plethora of terrible indie games that exist in the world well those aren't the ones that succeed now are they
You've got to have a few swing and a misses out there. AAA titles still make money when they make bad games, and we continue to feed that spirit of making bad games because we keep paying for them. We vote with our wallets, and we vote wrong a lot of the time.
Fair. Fair. Objection! For what? I didn't like what he said. Okay. Overruled. Ryan, you've got to win this one. Okay. All right.
Indie games, by contrast, however, are free from the shackles of these budgets and these time crunches. So you end up with a usually finished and perfect product that you'll remember for ages, honestly. And they're timeless because the graphics are not always trying to keep up with what is the most realistic.
I would like to say, Your Honor, that I feel they are timeless because they are stuck in time. They are stuck in 1992. And I'll call back to my eyes bleeding. Oh. Hollow Knight makes your eyes bleed?
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Chapter 7: What is the impact of live service models on gaming?
Do you have an example of a recent game, maybe? You know, the name escapes me. I believe it was called Mina the Hollow was my prior experience.
Oh, I will not stand for that game to be named in this court. I apologize, Your Honor. I apologize.
That game isn't even out yet, Your Honor. You can't possibly put that into this deliberation. It may never come out, and then it wouldn't be admissible evidence.
Here's the deal. AAA games, and we are talking basically based on visuals at this moment. There just cannot be a scale that indie games can match. The budget is not there. Sure, like I said, you get those ones that come every once in a while, but AAA games, graphically, over the whole, are far superior, and that is the first of many notches in a AAA category.
Council, what do you have to say about the move of AAA gaming towards the live service model, which most gamers would consider to be a detriment to gaming at this point? How do you reconcile that with gamers?
Oh, well, Your Honor, I would say that change sometimes is uncomfortable, albeit for the betterment of the community at large. More money for developers equals better games, better advancements, better updates, and ultimately a better experience. Therefore, while people may not like it, it is not changing, so you better buckle up and get used to it.
So you're saying that live service games lead to the greater good when it comes to gaming?
absolutely okay uh opposing counsel what's your take on that my take on live service gaming being something we just have to accept and move on with it comes back to voting with your wallets and learning that maybe you shouldn't keep encouraging these behaviors and allowing companies to get away with you know throwing up a live service game that's up for like five years they got all your money and now it's gone now you're out of it what do you have you have nothing no cosmetics no game no friends
no friends let me let me ask you a question uh indie council uh name name three of the best games uh ever made three of the best games ever made yes if you if you would humor me if i would humor you for three of the best games ever made i suppose you want me to say red dead redemption 2 that would be considered widely one of the best games ever made
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Chapter 8: What conclusions are drawn about indie versus AAA games?
That's a great question. But those AAA studios started with these characters. So there's already nostalgia for a lot of them. And some of them have already built Goodwill CD Projekt Red and expended it upon release as well by releasing broken games. You don't get that from indie games.
indie game developers will spend meticulous amounts of time making sure every little piece of their game is finished before releasing it to public even going so far as to releasing it in early access which kills a lot of them i know because they hate it but it gets all the bugs sorted out before the full release thus giving you a full complete product that you don't get in every triple a game give me two more days just two more days okay
I got to go home in court. Counsel, is there an issue? No, I'm sorry. Sorry. My mom's sick. Were you?
I heard mention of owing money no no no no no anyways games AAA games your honor yes thanks for rejoining us here Ace just made mention that you know indie games are made with passion they're often complete games without the bugs that gamers have been told to get used to but refuse to get used to day one patches stuttering crashing that sort of thing which is more prevalent in the AAA universe so what do you have to say about that
Well, when you're managing five or six pixels on a screen, it's not too hard to navigate around that. These AAA games are immense. They are terabytes of code that they have to go through. I, quite frankly, am surprised it's not even worse on launch days with how much they have to manage.
Council, I'm going to have to remind you, I know you keep pandering to me about poor graphics, but let me remind you of a recent release of a game called Expedition 33, which has proven to be one of the most successful indie releases in quite some time, is an easy front runner candidate for game of the year, which was made by an indie studio.
How do you reconcile that with the AAA studios not being able to provide that quality of game with three times the amount of developers?
Well, I would say, how often does that happen? You call this game so amazing, one of the largest indie releases, because it is so rare. Games like this, that launch this way, that look this good and play that well, I will give it to Expedition 33. It is a fine, fine game for what it is. Objection, your honor.
He would dare say for what it is to Expedition 33, the game that redefines the turn-based genre?
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