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What I survived

North Korean Crypto scam? P2

31 Mar 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What led Christopher Emms to be wanted by the FBI?

6.106 - 31.422 Jack Lawrence

The Wanted poster has been around since the 1700s. In the United States, slave owners would circulate descriptions of runaway slaves in an effort to force their return. However, the idea of itemising the country's most hardened criminals originated back in 1949, when a newspaper article profiled several quote-unquote tough guys who were clear in the sights of the FBI.

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31.402 - 49.051 Jack Lawrence

The writer of this article had quizzed the director of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover, over a game of cards. After seeing just how popular the story became, Mr Hoover would approve the idea of releasing a top ten list as a way of soliciting tips and other help from the general public.

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49.672 - 65.848 Jack Lawrence

The first name on that list was released in March of 1950, over 70 years before a young English guy named Christopher Eames would find himself on that very list. My name's Jack Lawrence. Welcome to Wanted.

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66.229 - 88.543 Unknown

I'm a wanderer of the soul Before the end I plan to be whole But I know I'll lose myself along the way What's gone is gone What's past is past Let me leave what belongs in the past

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94.345 - 113.434 Jack Lawrence

So Christopher Eames is a young bloke from the UK who has found his way into the world of crypto. Working for a company called Bitcoin.com, he's invited to North Korea for what he's told is a cryptocurrency conference. So far, the trip has been really what he'd expected. A little bizarre, but nothing at all seemingly that sinister.

113.414 - 131.895 Jack Lawrence

In fact, if you want to see just what it was like for Chris and his group of other tech enthusiasts on this tour of North Korea, you can just jump onto YouTube and watch any of the many videos of others who have taken a trip here. Because every single foreigner gets exactly the same experience and structured tours.

131.875 - 143.811 Jack Lawrence

However, when Chris arrived in North Korea, it was slightly different, because in fact, it hadn't been long since the American President Donald Trump famously shook hands with the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.

144.232 - 160.614 Christopher Ems

We went to the demilitarized zone one day on a very bumpy road out of Pyongyang, basically doing what you can do from one side on the other side. And we were told that when we were there, really interesting that, you know, we're really excited as North Korea that you know, we're working towards peace with America. Here's the tree that Donald Trump planted.

160.694 - 180.823 Jack Lawrence

The two leaders shook hands. Trump on South Korean soil, Kim Jong-un in the North. They were separated only by a narrow concrete strip, the demarcation line between the two Koreas. President Trump asked and was invited to cross the first sitting American president to set foot on North Korean soil.

Chapter 2: How did Christopher's trip to North Korea unfold?

459.444 - 477.677 Christopher Ems

Virgil, myself, and another, an Italian guy called Fabio, who was on the trip with us, we bought those North Korean mouth suits. And we wore them to the conference as a joke. Whereas the US have said that we were wearing them because we were some sort of officials. That's absolutely not true. It was just a joke. That's how big a joke this whole thing was.

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477.957 - 494.674 Christopher Ems

So maybe it obviously was a silly joke, but I always thought if anyone has a common sense and they look at the evidence of this, they'll just see it for what it is. It was a joke. We come back to the hotel that night. They were like, look, that was a really great conference. We had a great time. And I'm thinking you didn't like none of us had a great time, but okay.

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494.924 - 515.82 Christopher Ems

And they took us to the fairground in Pyongyang, which is quite fun, actually. And then they took us for a Korean barbecue dinner. Right. Which is very nice. And that was it. Got on the plane, got our passports back. See you later. You know, bye bye. Off we went back to Beijing and then everyone made that, you know, went their own separate ways from there back home. And that was the conference.

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515.84 - 517.523 Christopher Ems

That was the trip in its entirety.

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517.553 - 533.255 Jack Lawrence

And that was that. Chris leaves North Korea and continues on with his life for the next two years, hearing absolutely nothing about the trip or any issues the FBI might have with what had gone on. Until one day he gets a message.

534.016 - 553.438 Christopher Ems

I always say my life changed dramatically in November of 2019. So I remember it really well. So at the time I was in my apartment at the time in Malta. And someone messaged me and goes, didn't you go on that weird North Korea conference? I was like, yeah, what about it? Someone went, oh, they just arrested this American guy. And I looked and it was Virgil. And I read the indictment.

553.558 - 564.34 Christopher Ems

And I could see from that indictment, I had a very strong suspicion that that I was one of the people named as one of the co-conspirators. It turns out I was right. From that point on, I was like, OK, shit, something's going to go down.

564.54 - 584.202 Jack Lawrence

Now, instead of ignoring the situation, he's not a US citizen after all, or running away even, Chris's first thought is to find out what on earth is going on and did the FBI want to speak with him? So he jumps on the phone and gets himself an American attorney who can subsequently reach out to the FBI and find out what's going on.

584.722 - 601.778 Christopher Ems

And I said, look, if this is a problem, it's better I face this head on. Let's face it. And I'm pretty sure I'll be exonerated from this because it's entirely, excuse my French, it's entirely a load of bullshit. So let's face it. The lawyer calls me back. He goes, Chris, I've spoken to them. They've got no further questions at this time. You are not an American citizen.

Chapter 3: What happened during the cryptocurrency conference in North Korea?

899.711 - 909.445 Christopher Ems

We'll write a nice letter to the judge saying that you've helped us and you can testify at Virgil's trial. We also want you to plead guilty for wire fraud. And I said, OK.

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909.577 - 926.217 Christopher Ems

But I haven't done I'm not a con man and they said well in 2018 you went on a video and at the time I was advising a company called Skycoin I was advising on regulation and I held up one of their their products and said this is great. It works Well, it did work because I had it in my house. You can plug it in and it works, right?

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926.237 - 941.493 Christopher Ems

They said well it didn't work and I said well it did and they said well we beg to differ So we want to charge you with that. Anyway, I said absolutely not I said, you know, we're ending this now and So my lawyers said to me at the end, I took advice from another lawyer in the UK. And he said, Chris, you're not American.

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942.414 - 958.602 Christopher Ems

This crime that they're trying to charge you with, it's only applicable under the law to US citizens and US persons. You are neither one of those. You have never lived in the US. You aren't a US person. You don't have a green card. You definitely don't have a US passport. Just forget it. So I was like, OK, still didn't feel very good about it.

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961.501 - 973.597 Jack Lawrence

His feelings would be right, because unbeknownst to Chris, the US had decided to proceed with actions against him. And that meant a grand jury going on thousands of miles away from where he was.

974.058 - 998.383 Christopher Ems

January 2022, I went from Dubai to Saudi Arabia, because Saudi Arabia was holding a conference on technology. Again, another conference, a man of many conferences. And so I thought, well, that's interesting. It's only an hour flight from Dubai to Riyadh. I'll jump on the plane and I'll go and see what this is all about. Went there. Pretty mundane conference. Interesting.

998.403 - 1016.129 Christopher Ems

A lot of big tech companies there. But really, I got nothing done. Met a few mates there. End of that. Get to the airport on the way back. And I'm ready. I can't wait. I'm flying back to Dubai. I've got a good lunch with some mates. And I think that's going to be great. Get to the airport nice and early. Do the usual thing. Put your bag in the check-in.

1016.77 - 1033.052 Christopher Ems

Go to the passport control, as you do in any airport. And the woman sat there, she's looking at my passport. And my passport's a bit battered. Like, you know, most people who travel a lot, their passports are never in. And so it didn't really faze me at the beginning. She's looking at it. And eventually a couple of guys come over and say, hey, can you come this way?

1033.612 - 1046.605 Christopher Ems

And I'm like, okay, what's this? And the guy just says to me, you know, America, Interpol, red, very bad. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, okay, well, this shit's got real.

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