Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Libraries Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Blog Pricing
Podcast Image

Whateley

The Eminently Sensible Phil Davis | Whateley (03.06.26)

03 Jun 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What are Phil Davis's thoughts on Essendon's coaching search?

0.031 - 6.801 Gerard Whateley

Our Wednesday staple is the eminently sensible Phil Davis, and let's put him to work on the biggest story in footy.

0

7.355 - 24.314 Unknown

Andrew Welsh is a good friend of mine. We've been friends for 20 odd years. I think I coached Andrew, his last game was back in 2011. And so I've known Andrew since a young kid, but I've been very conscious not to reach out to him because I think that is spoiling the process and actually inserting myself in a way that I don't want to.

0

24.414 - 37.328 Unknown

I want Essendon to go about, as I said the other night, to go about and go through an exhaustive process. And if I'm the candidate that they choose, fantastic. If I'm not, I'm not. But in terms of contacting Essendon, being contacted by them, that hasn't happened.

0

37.308 - 56.918 Gerard Whateley

James Heard on footy classified last night. It is the hottest talking point in footy, and I imagine it remains so all the way through. And who's to say how long that is? The eminently sensible mind of Phil Davis. Hello to you, Phil. Good morning, Gerard, and I think there's nothing truer than what you just said, Ben.

0

Chapter 2: How does Phil Davis view the current state of the AFL?

57.339 - 74.959 Gerard Whateley

I love the way your mind works. If you were Andrew Welsh, now that you've seen how it's all landed, I'm sure there was a strategy to play the long game here. Now that you've seen how it's running day to day to day, what's your approach? How do you go about staging this search for a new coach?

0

76.205 - 79.968 Phil Davis

It's a very challenging one, Gerard. That's the easiest place to start.

0

80.429 - 104.731 Phil Davis

And what I think conflates it even more is that James Heard has a media presence in the game, and I think that makes it – that will be a weekly platform for which this discussion will occur and there will be questions, and he's employed by Channel 9, who will expect comments, and that will be a circle that just keeps feeding itself every week, Gerard. So you can expect that for the week.

0

104.791 - 129.381 Phil Davis

So I think Andrew will know that. And so Andrew has two options. He either goes one, James Heard has been ruled out and that kills it. Or two, he comes out and says, we will undertake the process. And James has not been excluded from that process. He will be contacted in the time that's appropriate. And I think he has one of two choices.

0

Chapter 3: What are the implications of James Hird's media presence on Essendon's coaching process?

130.323 - 147.855 Phil Davis

My natural inclination of what I think will happen is he'll do the latter. And I think he should probably get ahead of it soon would be my view would be, If he's not going to rule him out or he's not going to have a meeting to make a decision on ruling James Hurd out, he needs to put the second one out there to be like, we will do the process and we will find the best coach.

0

147.915 - 154.361 Phil Davis

James is not excluded. He'll be contacted in due course, just like any other potential coach will be, and we'll go from there.

0

155.582 - 165.291 Gerard Whateley

What do you think that will do to those on the outside who have already expressed their hesitancy to being involved in a process that would run like that?

0

166.79 - 190.973 Phil Davis

And what I've gathered and what I would say would be, If you're a young coach, I would not – if it sounds like you would still go into the process because it's great to get the PowerPoint out and present and really sharp it and get some feedback. You don't get sharp feedback on your presentation until you present. Yes. And that would be part of what I'd want.

0

190.993 - 206.719 Phil Davis

I'd be like, I want some strong feedback about where I was weak and why you didn't like it so I can hone it. If you were someone who had one last chance and you'd been looked over three, four, five times and you knew one more meant that you were branded, that you will never be a senior coach, they will not go for this job.

208.422 - 223.324 Phil Davis

And then if you're an old senior coach who's probably more in the lens of where a lot of them are now, it's like they're not going to go for a job unless they get a wink, wink, nudge, nudge that they're going to take the job because they don't want the optics either that they go for one and they lose. So...

Chapter 4: How should Essendon approach their coaching search according to Phil Davis?

224.452 - 242.232 Phil Davis

It probably goes back a step, Gerard, and go, what coach do we want? What's the archetype that we want? Let's do some deep thinking about that. And that decision will probably start the next decision, Gerard, because you've got to know what kind of coach. You have to have a deep thought about your club and have a very clear understanding of what you think is required.

0

243.093 - 245.796 Phil Davis

Then from there, you choose your language and process off the back of that.

0

247.338 - 252.484 Gerard Whateley

Yes. So that's the very logical starting point of what to do next.

0

253.409 - 271.613 Phil Davis

Well, actually, there's a step before that, Gerard, which is what club do we want to be? Who do we want to be? And it's almost – there's this terrible approach that takes decades, Gerard. It's called zero-based accounting. And basically, you start from absolutely nothing. You don't spend $1. You don't do anything.

0

Chapter 5: What challenges do young coaches face in the current AFL environment?

271.633 - 291.738 Phil Davis

You just go, what would we need to do this properly? Essendon aren't far away from zero-based football clubbing. And I think they need to be very clear about what they're going to do, what changes they need to make, what that looks like. What's the broader group? Because I know it's become a rhetoric that gets used all the time.

0

291.758 - 312.156 Phil Davis

But without stability and good governance, I just haven't seen a football club in the last 30 years have consistent success. And particularly, I feel like the game has changed since 2006 on that front. It's become a full-time professional job. We expect so much more of our players and our staff. It's become more professional than it's ever been.

0

313.017 - 329.975 Phil Davis

The actual best point is Jason Ball retired in 2005. He was the last AFL player to have a second job. And so if you look from that point forward, I have not seen a club had success without strong governance and stability. And I think it's fair to say that Essendon have had neither in the last 20 years.

0

330.976 - 334.119 Gerard Whateley

How utterly perfect that Essendon and Carlton play on Sunday night.

0

Chapter 6: Why does Phil Davis believe stability is crucial for AFL clubs?

335.341 - 355.273 Phil Davis

I know. It's very... You know, we'll talk about the fixture maybe later, Jared. But I almost lost the Essendon loss on the weekend. It almost, like, evaporated into, like, an abyss that I didn't even know the game was going over in Perth. Like, it was just... Anyway, so they've got a lot to work on. Dean Sullivan will get a full week. Carlton couldn't be going any better under Josh Fraser.

0

355.453 - 369.109 Phil Davis

I was there on the Friday night game. Sorry, you're running around on the oval, Jared. Just outbotting Tom Hawkins. And then that was an exhilarating game. It was just fantastic. Two clubs going two very different directions at the moment, Jared.

0

369.129 - 376.282 Gerard Whateley

Yeah, and it's inevitable and it's absolutely appropriate that we draw our minds to preferable.

0

Chapter 7: What does Phil Davis think about Fremantle's premiership credentials?

377.103 - 379.447 Gerard Whateley

Which is preferable, the Bombers or the Blues?

0

381.03 - 411.953 Phil Davis

Yeah, for me, it's very much a... Which floors are you willing to accept conversation? For me, at this stage, there's a part of me that thinks they're like two incredible jobs and jobs that I would, you know, if I was a senior coach, like when do you get tickets to one of the four biggest franchises in the game? Just sitting there and the opportunity to turn around and drive it is there.

0

412.102 - 436.607 Phil Davis

But there's a little bit of an asterisk. And the asterisk leads to a footnote that says lots of other stuff going on. Things are wobbly. It's not stable, which would be concerning and off-putting for a lot of people. But to answer your question directly, Joe, I would choose Carlton. I think it's more stable. And if I was a first-time coach, I want stability. If I've got the advantage of time,

0

437.363 - 457.088 Phil Davis

I would be thinking, you know, maybe I take on Essendon. But I said it last week, and having lived through the Giants and Gold Coast entering the competition and what it did for Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs, where you start at the bottom and the dog is somehow circumnavigated the way out of it, but you just miss so many draft picks along the way.

0

Chapter 8: How can clubs improve their chances of success in the AFL?

457.108 - 480.347 Phil Davis

And Essendon are really deep in there. Carlton are less, like they're there, but it's not as bad. So, I think that's the other factor. I think it's A, I take Carlton because I feel like they're more of an identity of where they're going. They've still got lots of work to do. And secondly, I don't think that the Tasmania introduction is going to be as impactful to them.

0

480.867 - 501.441 Gerard Whateley

We'll see. It's an Essendon home game at the MCG, so I can't imagine we don't see some visible demonstration of the mood of the people and that particular demeanour of the Essendon community, which Kevin Sheedy gives voice to, and it seems to be all the way through to the rank and file that only Essendon people get it.

0

503.21 - 517.708 Phil Davis

And there's something so admirable about that, Jared. Sometimes I look and I go, wow, like just the passion of the fans. I said it last week. I think Eston fans are amazing. Like the passion, the loyalty, they show up, they're committed. And that is, that is incredible. Um,

0

518.465 - 538.728 Phil Davis

But the catch-22 on that is when you think that your way is the only way and the concept that, for example, only James Hurt can do it because only he gets it and only Estonian people because they're the only ones capable that actually get it. Culture can be taught. A good organisation can teach culture and can teach the importance of things. You look at the All Blacks.

0

538.788 - 549.586 Phil Davis

It's become such an institution over there. If you read the book Legacy... what they're able to do about like institutionalizing what it means to be an all black is phenomenal.

549.626 - 571.894 Phil Davis

And so the concept that Essendon only gets Essendon people to me, reduces an opportunity to learn, to instill what it means to be an Essendon when you show up and you don't always have to go to the world to get Essendon people. Because if you use that outside of the draft, you just never get new talent in because someone else is always like a slightly used by other football clubs.

572.195 - 589.14 Gerard Whateley

And the last element in the Essendon discussion is Kel Toomey reported last night at AFL.com.au that the Bombers have begun discussions with the league about an assistance package at the end of the season, given their long-term occupation at the bottom of the ladder. What's your view there?

590.572 - 609.514 Phil Davis

My view is very simple, Gerard, is that no one should ever get in trouble for asking for something, Gerard. And if you're a young player and you want to walk into the GM's office, they come up with $2 million a year and you haven't played a game, you've got every right to ask, Gerard. I think that's about as eloquently and polite as I can put it, Gerard. Everyone's allowed to ask.

609.594 - 613.098 Gerard Whateley

Yep, yep. Do you have a guiding philosophy on assistance packages?

Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.