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Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
It's Stuart Waitley. Thanks for listening to the podcast. In this episode, the art of coaching with Ken Hinckley, the eminently sensible Phil Davis, athletics broadcaster Mitch Dyer, but at Sunday racing on a terrific day of crickets, Melbourne Storm CEO Justin Rodsky, and nerdy stats, the hyphens with Peter Blucher. You can get in touch at any time. Waitley at sen.com.au. Thanks for listening.
Enjoy. Wednesday morning. This is your town. This is your station. This is Waitly. Good morning. It wasn't hard to figure out why last weekend's footy was lacking that little something. You could make the case the four most intriguing teams were left in the sheds. Fremantle is the competition leader.
Any opposition team with aspirations will now be studying what's happening out west and where the vulnerabilities might lie in a team that has won 12 on the trot. Justin Longmuir has his team humming, but will need to fortify for what's coming over the border. Hawthorne still looks the most likely contender from this state, but Sam Mitchell's team has won only two of its past six games.
And its last showing raised questions of temperament as much as conversion. You'd imagine it gave the coach plenty of material when his team reconvened. Collingwood has been shuffled all the way back to 13th with just five wins to its name. Craig McRae's tasks are plenty.
Striving for momentum, managing important retirements, making decisions on the underdeveloped youth and working through injuries to key defenders. Plus the declared ambition to bring players to the club to return to contention next year. That's a full bill for any coach. And Carlton resumes rather curiously in a better position than 2023 at the corresponding time.
An interim coach has never been in this position, having won four in a row at the start of his tenure. Does the Blues' rise continue? Do they take a ping at 10th? It's a question Josh Fraser told us was in the hands of the senior players when last we saw him two Sundays ago.
I think that conversation around the 10 will be led by the players, whether they want to chase something now. We're probably in that position where that conversation can happen at some point. We're still growing our game. We've traditionally been a strong contest team. We're trying to grow it from the contest out. There's some role stuff around that.
But even deeper than that, I think the next 10, well, post-buy, a 10-week block gives us a chance to look at how we're training, look at how we're educating, and just maybe tinker and adjust a few things there.
Do you want to chase something now? We debated this at length on Crunch Time with Kenny and Simmo on Saturday, and Todd Morris subsequently tells us that the Blues have decided to live in the moment rather than declare an ambition. So the art of coaching comes in various forms for the intriguing teams coming off the bye, and this is where we rely on Ken Hinckley every Wednesday.
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Chapter 2: What insights does Ken Hinkley provide about coaching?
So there's a lot to do, a lot to do, and a really delicate situation, I would have thought, for Craig to manage. And, look, he's been doing it now long enough to understand that the most difficult part for him, I think, will be the management of the retiring players. Because they're not, you know...
Players finishing up in their careers at different levels and different stages, you know, some are easier to do than retiring a great. You know, and we're talking greats with the players that they're talking about. And, you know, I'd done that last year with Bokey. And it just, it was a fitting finish because I was finishing, Trav was finishing it. It felt, you know, it felt really nice.
And Trav had accepted where he was at and knew exactly where he was at. He knew his back and his body wasn't going around one more time. He'd squeezed the lemon really dry. Now, do some of the Collingwood players think like that or don't think like that? So they're the challenging ones, the ones who still want to compete because they're
I remember having this conversation once with a great player at Geelong and the conversation went along the lines of, we asked you to compete for 15 or 16 years and be a real dog after a bone style person. And then when we tell you it's time to finish, we expect the competitor to stop. Well, it just doesn't happen like that.
They will always, always think that they're good enough to play another game or another two games or another season of games. I remember Jeff Parker telling me once he was a head recruiter at Port Adelaide, he was a cricketer and he said, if you gave a great batsman another 10 innings, they'll get another 100 because they've just been so good for such a long time.
But the 100 will be one in 10, not five in 10. So I thought, yeah, it's a pretty good analogy, Parks, that if we think about that, you give great players another hit, they're a chance to hit you over the fence. But they're also a chance to get clean ball on the first ball. Yes. So there's a bit to work through for the retiring champs.
It's a really, really challenging and difficult position to be in. When you're lucky to be at a footy club for a long period of time and you coach a lot of players for a long time, it's a hard thing to do when you get to that last part and you have to ā Ask them to consider not playing any longer because they just love playing. Yes, yep.
All right, the art of coaching for Craig McRae in the next phase. And then there's Sam Mitchell. So the Hawks have only won two of their past six. The loss to the Bulldogs looked even worse after what we saw Adelaide did to them and particularly where you consider where they were at halftime. So I feel like Sam would have had a fair bit of ammunition when he got his group back together.
He doesn't need much ammunition, I don't reckon, Mitch. He doesn't mind having a crack at the best of times. But, Gerard, they've got a draw that's really, really, really, really exciting if you're a Hawthorne supporter. You know, if you can get some things done in the next three games, because the next three games, you know, they're not the hardest three games, but they're challenging.
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Chapter 3: How do the Blues approach their current season?
You know, my greatest thing with Bailey is just park. what you do, you know, your thought process. Let's just get your footy up and talking. And he completely agrees. And, you know, he's just such a wonderful kid that he's trying to do his very best to help the Gold Coast win. And it's just not working for him at the moment. And the fact of the matter is it's my job to help him through that.
The art of coaching there. So Damien Hardwick with us on 360 on Monday night. I think he had a good hard think about whether he's going to answer that honestly, Kenny, and then he did. So how challenging is that scenario between coach and player?
Yeah, that's a very challenging line, particularly one everyone knows or has seen over the last 12 months has a desire probably to return back to Victoria. So that is really challenging. And he's a young, young player. Damien's right, he's a very young player. And, you know, he's dealing with...
all the distractions that are going on in his mind and what he would really like to be and where he'd really like to play his footy versus he's currently playing for the Gold Coast Suns. And probably Gerard Norton probably loves playing for the Gold Coast Suns when game day comes around. It's the days in between for most of these young players that battle with it. And Damien's right.
He's got to help him and support him through that. And, like, he knows it better than anyone, Dimmer. He knows exactly what he needs to do. And, you know, Bailey just needs to ā just to concentrate on his footy and let other stuff take care of itself in the background. That's really easy to do as a mature age man to talk about.
But for a youngster and a young fella in his, what is he in now, his second year, third year? Second year, I think. And he's got so many things going on in his world that it's just hard for him. And his team is not playing well, Gerard, either.
Yeah.
You know, that's another thing. You know, if you're a power forward who goes a little bit on ball, you need the team to be playing well. You need the team to be having the ball in their hands more often than the opposition's hands. And you need to be a really confident, freely flowing team for a player like him to play well. I think, was it his first game of the year this year, he kicked four?
Yep. I think against the Cats up there when the Cats seemed to be on by, I think, at that stage. But... He played really well in that game and, you know, he managed to get that going. So he's got top intel. Everyone knows that. But at the moment, the coach's task is to allow him some freedom to feel okay and to go out there and play. Because game day is their happy day.
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Chapter 4: What challenges does Collingwood face this season?
What? The Stars are playing as the Stars in BBL 16? This is like breaking up with your girlfriend, but you keep hooking up. Sure, it's fun, but deep down you know the relationship is doomed. I don't go for either the Stars or the Renegades, but the cricket gods surely have them playing off in this season's final. It will be poetic. And I think it's even worth a little wager. That's from Daz.
And new name for next season, the Melbourne Zombies. That's from Mark. So how do you go through with two teams that... You have abolished and are going to play a full season together. This is the most difficult way to do it. Does 15 years give you nostalgia? Do the two derbies of the Stars and the Renegades draw us from a nostalgic point of view that this is the last time they'll play?
Or does it have us shaking our heads and waiting for what comes next? It's just weird, frankly, as Malcolm Speed indicated yesterday. Just weird. It wasn't the right strategy, the way that it's been done and what that means for the cricket going public of Melbourne across the summer. It'll be such an interesting case study to observe. And Bharat Sundaresan is going to join me later this hour.
Both the Australian men and women are in action today, both against Bangladesh. The women at a World Cup, the men as they move to the T20 phase of their tour of Bangladesh. The eminently sensible Phil Davis joins me every Wednesday just to chew over a couple of the footy topics.
Essendon's coaching search, Collingwood's list strategy, and I've got Gold Coast big on Phil's agenda, knowing expansion the way that he does. Phil, hello.
Morning, Gerard. Always good to be here.
Now, I feel like this is your sweet spot. You were there on Friday night at the Catering. You saw Gold Coast. You've had a keen eye towards the Suns probably since their inception. And here we are with a whole lot of issues swirling around an expansion club. So it feels like there's a bit of a build-up to this conversation.
I know, and it feels a little bit different from the conversation at circa round three or four or five, Gerard, when things were looking really, really good. I guess my initial observations on Friday probably were more related to how well Chris Scott controlled the ground and set up the ground. I thought their ability, Geelong's ability to defend... Gold Coast was very, very, very good.
Obviously, Gold Coast liked to either use the corridor or then try to go around, and they were able to slow both, which is very hard to do, and I think that was really important. But I think the broader bit is Gold Coast had their opportunities and can't seem to connect. They've got Ben King, who's basically leading the Coleman, if not leading the Coleman, and
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Chapter 5: How would Lockie Neal improve Collingwood's team?
The midfield would notionally be better, yes. Okay. So all this rhetoric and all this thing about Lockie Neal going or not going to Collingwood, I don't understand it. You don't think we should debate it, Lou?
No, no, I don't think it should be debated because it's quite simple. Every football club, every team in this, in the competition wants to improve their output on the field.
So if Collingwood think by getting Lockie Neal, it will improve their midfield, which will probably improve the way they can deliver the ball to their forward line, then they should go for it. Let me ask you a question now, Lou. Do you think Collingwood will be a top four team next year with Lockie Neal in the middle with Nick Dacos?
No.
Oh, well, then the debate is alive, Lou.
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Chapter 6: What are the implications of Collingwood's recruitment strategy?
Because what would the point be if you're not going into contention? No, well, I think they'll be top eight, if not top six, but top four is a stretch. That's what I'm saying. So... I think they will improve with Lockie Neal in the team at the moment. Where are they sitting at the moment? Yeah, so I would do it, Lou, but I think it's a debate. I don't think it's just open and shut.
Colleen would have greater priorities than just bringing Lockie Neal in by your own estimation. So you bring a player in on a million dollars, he needs to be a needle mover. But you can pay, the good clubs will tell you they paid 25% more for a free agent that doesn't cost you anything in draft collateral. But Colin would have to build the next successful team.
So I think the debate's the wrong way around. We have to be in contention because we have Nick Dacos. I think it's the other way around. You have to build a team around Nick Dacos to contend. So I just think we've got the question the wrong way around. Okay, I understand that and I accept that. But I still think that Lockie Neal going to Collingwood will improve them. I'm a bit of a realist.
I'm not going to say I think they're going to be top four because I think that's a bit of a stretch. But the question here is, will it improve Collingwood? Yes, it will improve Collingwood. To what degree? Yes, I think it will improve them greater than what they are going at the moment.
Top four is a stretch because top four is quite difficult to be in that category right at the moment as we'll see them.
Yeah, so you have to build a team to get into contention, which is returning to the top four. So that's the overall strategy as opposed to just because Nick Dacos is there, we need to put something with him. I like the Liam Ryan example. Take what's in front of you and make yourself better. This has complications because it's a million dollars. Um, but that, yeah. So do that as a starting piece.
It's an interesting debate, Lou, and it's not rhetoric. It's, it's really interesting as to how Collingwood now builds its next team to contend. Uh, and I am not a, but there are so many cautionary tales. Don't bottom out. Don't bottom out. So I absolutely believe in that strategy from Collingwood, but they do need some young talent to come in the door as well.
So your way of thinking, Lou, Phil nailed it regarding Lockie Neal to the Pies. Won't cost picks, won't hurt the salary cap. A player of Lockie's calibre could really help the young Pies players coming up while helping fix a problem with Collingwood's midfield. Lockie gets to play at a big Melbourne club in marquee matches. Sounds like a win-win.
But if in the short term you're not returning to contention, then you have to ask what's the point of it. You've got to build the next team to contend at Collingwood. And what are the pieces in that? Lou, thank you. It's a good debate.
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Chapter 7: What does 'Tackle Tough Together' mean for mental health?
Dan, back to a bit of Collingwood bashing, G, your favorite sport. If you think that's Collingwood bashing, Dan, you're the problem. It's an interesting debate. I'm a Collingwood sympathizer. And I would do the Lockie Neal deal, but that wouldn't be my starting point. You've got to get the team back into contention long term.
But if you think that's Collingwood bashing down, I reckon you're the problem. Carlton, as for the F words, if it's spoken at Carlton, the focus reverts from what they are now doing to the future. The pressure of failure returns and they will go to water. That's from Ross.
Luke here, I don't support Carlton, but with this conversation, if they do make a play for the top 10, how much will that harm their draft points in order to get Cody Walker? Only you would talk up a Carlton game, Jared. It's a nothing year. The sugar hit is over. You just love building up their fan base, so they'll call in. They are a bog average, boring team.
You said it near the end of the Voss tenure, and look at you changing your tune again. They're going nowhere. Any danger you give up on them? They have won four in a row. I think that's worthy of a little bit of a look at any rate. I think the Carlton Giants game is fascinating. Giants, we're not quite sure.
Chapter 8: How can sport influence mental health awareness?
Carlton, the run to 10 is real. If they continue to win, Kenny spoke about that. I think that you can ignore it. No dramas. I'll be watching it. I'm really interested in it. But Art is going to join me next, a little bit of cricket. There's Origin tonight, 90,000 plus expected at the G. I'm going. I'm so interested to see if that's the crowd that they do draw. Justin Rodsky's in the studio.
We've got nerdy stats ahead of us as well. This is Waitley for Hyundai. Enjoy great deals at Hyundai Airfis on now at participatinghyundaidealerspay.com.au and Radius Telematics.
Now, back to Waitley. Yeah, we've got a bit of changeover in personnel. And the guys are really looking forward to this series. No doubt it's been a tough tour. But, yeah, we're going with high hopes to hopefully win this series and play some really good cricket.
Mitch Marsh returns to captain the Australian team against Bangladesh. So the men at 6 o'clock tonight, the women at 7.30 tonight. Both T20 fixtures, the women in a World Cup. The men have three T20s to round out this tour. Bharat Sundaresan is with me. Bharat, hello. Hello, Jared. It's been quite a week of sport in Australia. I'm loving it.
Can I just say, Jared, before we get into the cricket, when Australia beat Turkey, it was a big moment for me as well. The first time I could proudly say my country is playing in a FIFA World Cup. So it was quite special. And I just love how Australians get behind the soccer teams, both men and women, because That's one of the rare occasions, I guess, we get to play underdogs.
And even this narrative coming out of, oh, look what America said about us. We feel bad about it. And we're going to show them how bad we feel about it. We don't get it in cricket or most of the other sports or even in the Olympics, do we? No, that's nice. That's nice, Bharat. All right. Welcome to the Socceroos family. And so actually tonight's a great night of cricket.
I'm going to be straight up and down here. I'll be watching the test match between England and New Zealand and I'll flick to see the scores of how the Australians are going, men's and women's. But what a coincidence that both teams are playing Bangladesh. Isn't it? Yeah, no, exactly. And two obviously very different Bangladesh teams.
Can I just say, I know, I mean, we focus on what Australia are doing and, you know, we'll talk about Cooper Conley and even that brief glimpse we saw of Oli P. But my big takeaway from this Bangladesh ODIs, Jared, was I'm excited to see their fast bowlers on our pitches for those two test matches in August. Especially Naheed Rana, who's consistently the quickest bowler in the world.
I mean, who would have ever thought there would be a Bangladeshi fast bowler who would be spoken of in that vein, right? So that's really good. But yeah, I mean, I will be watching the Test match as well, mainly Jerd, because... England are the new Pakistan of world cricket. You never know what can happen.
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