Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Libraries Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Blog Pricing
Podcast Image

What's Up Docs?

Doctors' Notes: Lymphatic system

26 May 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?

0.031 - 3.696 Dr. Chris van Tulleken

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0

6.477 - 27.108 Unknown

There's a rare type of Ebola spreading in Central Africa, and it has no vaccine. The WHO has declared a public health emergency of international concern, and the U.S. has restricted entry for people coming from some African countries. What does this deadly outbreak tell us about how prepared or not we are for an international health crisis?

0

28.069 - 31.995 Unknown

For more, check out The Global Story on BBC.com or wherever you listen.

0

Chapter 2: What is the lymphatic system and its importance?

38.827 - 63.737 Unknown

Nordea Private Banking

0

68.662 - 73.512 Dr. Chris van Tulleken

Hello, welcome to Doctor's Notes. I'm Dr. Chris Van Tulleken, as ever I'm here with my identical twin brother.

0

73.692 - 84.595 Dr. Zand van Tulleken

That's me, Dr. Zond, and we have just finished recording an interview with Professor Christiana Gordon. She's a consultant in dermatology and lymphovascular medicine and clinical lead at the National Lymphedema Clinic.

0

86.954 - 104.035 Dr. Chris van Tulleken

Now, Zandi, in the main ep, we talked about why everyone is talking about detoxing and hacking your lymphatic system. And certainly, once you understand it and its ability to drain toxins, there's something superficially appealing about giving it a hand, kind of get where the social media hacks come from.

0

104.183 - 116.458 Dr. Zand van Tulleken

Well, as always on social media, there's a sort of little kernel of truth. You know, I suppose the kernel of truth is your lymphatic system is important, but anything to do with the lymphatic system, it is not the place to go.

116.478 - 128.594 Dr. Chris van Tulleken

That is right, Zand. And luckily we had Christiana Gordon with us to help us discard a lot of those misguided bits of advice on social media. But there's so much more to explore and Christiana was good enough to stay with us a little bit longer.

128.775 - 133.563 Dr. Zand van Tulleken

Well, that's right. Now, in Doctor's Notes, we're going to talk further about what happens when the lymphatic system breaks down.

133.863 - 148.288 Dr. Zand van Tulleken

We're going to talk about how Christiana got into not just this line of work, but how she's one of the first people to develop this as a new medical discipline and her work on the genetic causes and the possible future treatments for what is currently an incurable condition.

148.649 - 160.519 Dr. Chris van Tulleken

Let's open the notes. Christiana, thanks so much for staying for a deeper dive in Doctor's Notes.

Chapter 3: What are common misconceptions about detoxing the lymphatic system?

410.954 - 412.456 Dr. Chris van Tulleken

That's the removal of fat tissue.

0

412.476 - 433.869 Professor Kristiana Gordon

The removal of fat tissue, yes. So what we're learning is that the lymph system, as well as playing a role in fluid balance, it also plays a role in inflammation and fat regulation. So what we then can do if a person is suitable for it and wants to go for it is do liposuction to debulk that limb to reduce the volume. We can try and match it to their other unaffected limb sometimes. Wow.

0

433.889 - 453.853 Professor Kristiana Gordon

It doesn't come without a cost though because what we have done when we've done the liposuction is damage many of the lymph vessels that were previously working. So post-surgery for liposuction, you need to sign up to wearing your compression garments 24-7 for life, day and night. You can only take your compression garments off for a shower.

0

453.833 - 467.469 Professor Kristiana Gordon

So you definitely wouldn't want to do liposuction for lymphoedema for cosmetic reasons. But if you've got functional problems with this big arm or leg stopping you from leading a normal life, it's absolutely something to consider. So the other surgical options are lymph node transfer.

0

467.729 - 485.251 Professor Kristiana Gordon

That's where a surgeon says, I'm going to borrow a lymph node, perhaps from somewhere in your abdomen or somewhere else, and make a little cut and sew it into your groin where you've got lymphoedema of the leg below it. And There are some wild claims that they can grow new lymph vessels and cure lymphedema with it. I think the jury's out on that one.

485.551 - 502.595 Professor Kristiana Gordon

The third procedure is very low risk, and that's the plumbing one, the true re-plumbing, where plastic surgeons are doing super microsurgery, identifying lymph vessels that they can sew into nearby veins and bypass any blockages or obstruction to lymph drainage.

502.615 - 502.875 Dr. Chris van Tulleken

Does it work?

504.442 - 509.509 Professor Kristiana Gordon

The literature is not convincing for the majority of cases, but I have seen it work.

509.749 - 515.096 Dr. Chris van Tulleken

These things are perhaps not quite the width of a hair, but I mean, they're terribly, terribly tiny.

Chapter 4: How does one become a specialist in lymphovascular medicine?

757.186 - 762.215 Dr. Chris van Tulleken

And is it the same gene affecting then the valves in other places of the body, the ureter, the heart?

0

762.295 - 763.257 Professor Kristiana Gordon

We presume so.

0

763.237 - 763.678 Dr. Chris van Tulleken

Really?

0

763.798 - 780.908 Dr. Zand van Tulleken

You need an observant doctor for that, don't you? You're very, very pleased. I mean, I imagine that when you diagnosed the patient, they had never heard of this and didn't know what was going on and didn't quite understand why you were so excited. For them, that is a life changing diagnosis because you will be able to keep an eye on them for all sorts of other problems.

0

780.888 - 798.744 Professor Kristiana Gordon

And I screened his son. His son has it too. So we were able to pick up that his son was at risk and get him involved with the cardiac clinic as well because father and son both have the same heart valve problem. So if you know what type of primary lymphedema that young person or that family in front of you has, you know what else to screen for. Do you need to do a heart echo scan?

798.764 - 810.895 Professor Kristiana Gordon

Do you need to do a kidney scan? Do we need to do something else? So, you know, in our clinic, we really focus in on making an accurate diagnosis of primary lymphedema so we can support that child and the rest of the family appropriately.

810.875 - 813.479 Dr. Zand van Tulleken

Oh, that's so brilliant, Christiana. That's amazing.

813.88 - 832.971 Professor Kristiana Gordon

At City St. George's University, we are trying to find new genes that cause primary lymphedema. And that's where the MRC grant has come in. It's supporting the work looking for new genes, but also supporting our work looking at imaging of the lymphatic system. So we're trying some new MRI techniques to image the lymph system in more detail to understand the mechanisms of disease.

833.091 - 844.212 Professor Kristiana Gordon

Because at the moment, we treat the vast majority of lymphedema the same. But it's not the same disease. So I think people do deserve bespoke treatment for managing their condition. And one day we will have that.

Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.