Introducing White Hot Hate Season 2: Agent Pale Horse
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What is White Hot Hate Season 2 about?
This is a CBC Podcast.
What challenges did Scott Payne face as an undercover agent?
They came, surrounded, boom. They just jumped out and they arrested me too, slammed my head off the side of the car. And I was like, dadgum, man. Don't y'all know I'm undercover? I'll call him Scott because that's what he said his name was, but I'm sure that's not his name. It was his name. That part is true.
I asked him, I said, Scott, you FBI? He said, no, no, man. He denied it.
Who is Scott Payne and what was his role in the FBI?
Yeah, he was FBI. FBI Special Agent Scott Payne. What's it like to work undercover for years to infiltrate the KKK or deal with wannabe mass murderers?
He's like, man, I've got heart. I've got the heart. And he wanted to do something in the style of Dylann Roof, but on a grander scale. Or to spend your days and nights with violent bikers.
What are the dangers of infiltrating violent groups?
I can't just walk over there into a sea of testosterone and leather and say, hey, you guys ride? And eventually, some of them become your friends. I was worried about him. I was worried about his emotional state. He's married. He has kids. He's with gang members. And after a while, you see his personality. It changes. What does it do to you as a person to always be scanning for threats? Everything you see is like clicks, like click, click time dilation. You can feel your heart beating. You get a little sweaty. Your hamstrings get weak. Trying to figure out, hey, is this it? Am I going to die right now? What's it like to have to keep parts of your life a secret?
Here's what I tell people when they ask me, like, how did you cope living with an undercover? And I said, well, I did get some training through the movie of Donnie Brasco. That was my training.
I'm Michelle Shepard. On Agent Pale Horse, we're going to bring you a perspective you rarely hear. An unflinching view from the inside of some of today's most dangerous movements. Am I going to say that this is the worst threat in the world and that Nazis are going to be on your doorstep tomorrow? No. But are these people capable of being violent? And is it a movement that has been growing? Yes. Yes, it has. Agent Pale Horse, the second season of White Hot Hate. Available now everywhere you get your podcasts.
For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca.
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