In this episode, Karen and Jonelle explore the idea of the “watchful dragon,” a concept borrowed from C.S. Lewis that describes the unconscious inner protector guarding our sense of safety and identity. This inner defense often activates when our beliefs feel challenged, especially in conversations about race, change, and belonging. Through personal stories, including a charged conversation in a cab and reactions to harmful rhetoric online, they examine how fear, rather than hatred, frequently drives defensiveness and withdrawal. The discussion highlights how cultural conditioning and inherited narratives shape what feels comfortable or threatening, even when we see ourselves as kind or inclusive. Instead of treating defensiveness as failure, Karen and Jonelle reframe it as useful information, a signal that something deeper is being touched. The episode invites white women to notice when self-protection replaces curiosity, and to consider how staying with discomfort can open pathways to learning, accountability, and meaningful growth.Calls to ActionNotice your own watchful dragon this week. When you feel defensive, pause and ask what belief you are protecting.Practice curiosity over correction. Try responding with “tell me more” instead of shutting down or pushing back.Reflect on how fear manifests in your conversations about race, identity, and change, and consider what growth might be possible if you remained with the discomfort.We would love to hear from you! Contact us at [email protected] Support the show

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.

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