Greg Jenner is joined by guests Dr Sally Holloway and comedian Cariad Lloyd in the long 18th Century to explore Georgian love and courtship.Forget Bridgerton and Jane Austen – this is a historical how-to guide to finding a spouse in Georgian England. This episode takes you through a typical courtship in the era, from where to meet a potential partner, what gifts to buy them, and how much involvement your parents might have in the whole affair. This was a time when penning a love letter was a serious commitment, whilst sweets and spoons were considered flirtations of the highest order!This is a radio edit of the original podcast episode. For the full-length version, please look further back in the feed.Hosted by: Greg Jenner Research by: Bethan Davies Written and produced by: Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow, Emma Nagouse and Greg Jenner Project Management: Isla Matthews Audio Producer: Steve Hankey Executive editor: Philip Sellars
Chapter 1: Who are the hosts and guests in this episode?
Hello and welcome to You're Dead to Me, the Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. My name is Greg Jenner. I'm a public historian, author and broadcaster. And today we are channelling our inner Colin Firths and emerging soaking wet from the lake of history to bring you a special guide to love and courtship in Georgian Britain.
And to help us navigate this topic with sense and sensibility, we have two very special guests. In History Corner, she's a Vice-Chancellor's Research Fellow in History and History of Art at Oxford Brookes University, where she studies the history of gender and emotions in 18th and 19th century Britain.
Indeed, she's the author of The Game of Love in Georgian England, Courtship, Emotions and Material Culture. Perfect for us is Dr Sally Holloway. Welcome, Sally.
Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here.
Welcome back, Cariad.
Oh, Mr. Jenner, what a pleasure it is to finally be invited to your salon. I blush indeed. My countenance is not so fair. And to meet Miss Sally as well, whose work I have admired from afar, I must confess. Tis more than one could ask for on such a fine and temperate morning.
Oh, I'm so excited. We're fully committed.
Yes, she is also a member of Jane Austen improv show Ostentatious and will speak like that at any opportunity.
I was going to say, this is a reflex for you, right? I mean, Ostentatious, a brilliant improv comedy troupe. That means I'm guessing you're already an expert on Georgian social mores.
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Chapter 2: What defines the Georgian era and its courtship context?
If we're going to have a dating guide, we need to have a couple. So let's imagine our typical middle-class London living singleton, Cariad, what's his name?
Oh, Mr. Barnaby Sykes, surely.
Mr. Barnaby Sykes. And Barnaby is thinking of finding a wife. It's that time. And what do you think his motivation is for joining the marriage market, Cariad?
I can only imagine, dear Mr. Jenner, that he is looking to improve his circumstances somewhat.
normally that's what it is in georgia i'm struggling to keep up the constant georgian voice because it's quite difficult to answer a question mr sykes well it depends what his parents do really doesn't it and what he needs to get to make sure he keeps where he is or moves upwards not entirely to do with love who's in his circle that he would think would be a good wife bearer of children and hopefully bring in some cash sally are we agreeing with cariad's analysis there for the middling sort i think
I think actually it's a lot more about romantic love than you think. So like, yes, it is important to make a strategic match, but a strategic match with someone who you were in love with. This whole ideology of love became much, much more important during the 18th century. particularly for middling and genteel people like Mr Barnaby Sykes.
People like that would have found that love was being celebrated right across culture. You know, in the novels they read, in the poetry they read, in the art they saw, in philosophy. And it wasn't this sort of frothy idea, but actually something that was really important in revealing your morality and your refinement as a civilised person. Oh, that's interesting.
But there is that line from Matthew Bolton, don't marry for money, but marry where money is.
That is so funny because it also sounds a bit like a Michael Bolton lyric. And I'm like, are Matthew and Michael related? Don't marry for love, but find where it is.
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Chapter 3: Who is Barnaby Sykes and what motivates Georgian bachelors?
How old do you think our bachelor, Mr. Barnaby Sykes, is? And what's the age range of ladies that he is seeking to match with?
So I imagine Barnaby being like 21. And I think girls were sort of on the scene from 17, 18.
Sally?
That's a pretty good guess. Yeah, I mean, women were typically, you know, 23, 24. Men were mid-20s, maybe 26, 27, 28.
So our young romantic hopeful, Barnaby Sykes, has decided to fall in love. But how does he find a date?
Middling and genteel people, family and friends were really important. And you might meet someone at one of their houses, you know, in a group of friends that you were all going to the theatre together. Card party?
card parties yeah gaming or visits for tea or cake or dinner or you might meet people walking to church and back or if you were much poorer you might meet someone at a fair it wasn't completely calculated but it also doesn't mean that you could do anything you wanted for love you were just sort of gently shepherded into the right direction
For me, the funniest thing is how much walking they did. Like the walking around the room. It's like when you think of the levels you go to when there isn't a television to watch. And the promenades as well, like going for a promenade in town was such a thing.
So much walking, walking out in public squares, walking through town, walking around in front of other people.
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Chapter 4: How did people meet and socialize for courtship in Georgian Britain?
He does see past the children squabbling and Mr. Henriksen going on again. The finest pair of eyes he has ever set upon it was, of course, Miss Lydia Misschester.
OK.
LAUGHTER
All right. So we've got Barnaby and Lydia. They've met across a crowded room and their families are willing to drift them in. But what's the next stage of Georgian dating then?
He might sort of open it by offering her some gifts to see how interested she is and how well they're received.
So if she's like, all right, thanks. He's like, whoa, back away. What is it like brooches, necklaces? Like how much money does he have to spend?
You've gone big there, Carrie.
Well, I want to know.
I want to know what's been turned out my door. Well, I've studied one guy who he offers this woman sweets and she accepts them. But then the next day she puts her head down and walks past him on the other side of the street. Oh, it wasn't a successful offering.
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Chapter 5: What kinds of gifts were exchanged during Georgian courtship?
That is brutal.
You're dead to me.
You're dead to me. There we go.
That's harsh, isn't it? Because I feel like the blokes have got to invest a bit here, haven't you, when you're not sure?
Sweets is one option, but that can backfire. Cariad's brooches, is that a bit too fancy or is brooch good?
Only once you're much further in. So you'd open with something quite cheap, like a ribbon. Oh. And then escalate towards the end, offering things like rings and jewellery.
A new trim for your bonnet, Miss Miss Chester. LAUGHTER Oh, indeed. Thank you so much, Mr Sykes. And green to match my eyes, you are kind.
Yes, that sort of thing. But building up to hopefully like emeralds, basically. The things that you selected varied massively according to social class. So if you were poorer, you might gift things that you could collect for free, like posies of flowers that you collect from a meadow, coins that you'd engraved by hand.
You'd smooth it to a blank face and then engrave, you know, someone's initials on it.
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Chapter 6: How important were love letters in Georgian courtship rituals?
Oh, I'm excited. I hope it's a lock of creepy hair. Whoa! It's not far off a lock of creepy hair. Wow. So it's two... Well, one is a locket. LAUGHTER Where someone has painted very small, a mouth, but they have not painted anything else. So I assume they're saying, look, here is my lips for you. But it looks super creepy.
And there's a brooch where someone's only done an eye and it seems to be surrounded by pearls and it seems to be crying diamonds. I guess in those times that was romantic, but it looks really weird.
Why is it crying diamonds? It's a woman's eye and it's about the purity of her love.
And then the lips are for kissing. Do you kiss the locket?
Yeah, people kiss their love letters. They kiss their gifts. They kissed, you know, lips in pictures like this. It's all about creating that feeling of being together and creating an emotional bond at a distance, at a time when you couldn't just send someone a text.
Lovely. All right, so we've got various gifts you can give, but let's move on to another tool of courtship rituals. And this is a really big one. This is very important, actually. Cariad, if you really fancy someone and you're trying to lock them down and make this legit, what do you do next?
Oh, so it's not a gift?
It's a gift of sorts. I'm thinking more of communicating your thoughts.
Oh, a love letter?
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Chapter 7: What role did families and social expectations play in Georgian dating?
So letter writing is becoming this really, really important way of forming a person's identity and formulating their feelings. And the letters could be sent much, much more quickly because of the professionalisation of the postal system and improvement of the country's road networks. So it's becoming more immediate and more intimate.
The letter itself was a really important sort of gift, just like the tokens we've been talking about. So It had to be written on really good quality paper, so it might be gilded with a little gold leaf around the edges, be several pages in length. With loads of postscripts at the end. So at the end of them, it often says, you know, PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4, PS5.
Because you want to give this impression that you just can't tear yourself away from the page. You hang up. No, you hang up. No, you hang up.
No, you hang up. PS1. My PS4. Exactly.
Oh my God, that's so interesting. The time you're putting into this letter is the time that you're putting into your lover. It's a material device, you know, through which you're building this relationship.
All right, so we've got quite a sort of important script of dating here. Where are they learning how to do this? Are mum and dad explaining it? Are they reading it in books?
I mean, to some extent it comes from literature. So, I mean, if you were very devout, people made a lot of references to the Bible, Book of Common Prayer, things like Paradise Lost. That was a way to show their piety and perhaps, you know, have a few theological debates with your lover, you know. LAUGHTER
Hot, absolutely, yeah.
Not to brag, but I've just finished Paradise Lost, so if you want to chat through some of the main themes, I can send you my essay.
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