Description
「無塩乳酸発酵とつけ物」をテーマに、ゲスト上澤さんと話す回。旬の味を1年間、減塩ブーム、漬物のモダナイズ（塩をどう考えるか）、木曽のすんき、塩分3％？、近代までは高かった塩、圧力による酸による抗菌効果を高めるアジア、無塩乳酸発酵、猿酒、マニプル酒、グンドゥルック、紀元前8世紀からあるさいろ、酸味の漬物、つけ物のフロンティアは酸味？、豆豉はつけ物、発酵の起源は酒とつけ物を切り口におしゃべりが弾みます！
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