4DCA Division 1 Oral Argument - 2025/11/03 - Nov 03, 2025

argument

4DCA Division 1 Oral Argument - 2025/11/03

California Fourth District Court of Appeal, Division One 3h 47m 8 chapters transcribed 8 days ago official recording ↗

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Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

What does the clerk’s roll‑call and remote appearance procedure cover?

Jonathan 2:38

Good morning, this is Jonathan from the clerk's office. I'll be taking a roll call of those of you appearing remotely. Please unmute your microphone and turn on your video. When you hear your name, please state your presence. Dana Oliver? Good morning, Dana Oliver for the Appellant Jay Salman. Perfect. I can hear your audio and see you clearly. Thank you very much. Thank you. Um Alex Cree.

Alex Cree 3:05

Uh yes, this Alex Crate for uh appellant William Lee Keaton. Perfect.

Jonathan 3:09

I can hear you and see your audio uh well. Uh the court asks you both to keep your microphone muted and camera off until your case is called. As a reminder the proceedings are live streamed on the court's website. If you experience any technical issues during the session, immediately call in using the phone number and access code I emailed this morning. Uh thank you very much and the court will be with you both shortly.

Alexander Lauder 11:17

Worked up. Uh We would go run and go. We

Akram Awad 11:29

just

Alexander Lauder 11:29

can't go

Akram Awad 11:30

up there.

Alex Cree 11:33

Alexander Lauder 11:33

like two hundred stadiums. Well 'cause you need

Unknown 11:37

the bots. Yeah. And uh Yeah.

Alex Cree 12:29

Or they go to Like it's all dark and green and and uh

Alex Cree 13:24

Morning, welcome to the quarter field. Just a few things before we get started this morning. Uh the appellate table is to my right. When you come up to argue, please make sure you adjust the podium using the switcher on the right hand side

John Sylvester 13:34

Alex Cree 13:34

the microphone is pointing at your chin. If you don't, the justices will not hear you on the bench and they'll stop you in an argument. Uh any questions for me this morning? Great. Thank you, appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah.

Alexander Lauder 13:52

There's three of us on the first matter.

Ben Cooper 14:00

I'll pull over an answer for it.

Alexander Lauder 14:01

Thank you.

Unknown 14:12

Thirty minutes, yeah.

Unknown 16:19

That's why it is incredibly.

Alexander Lauder 16:24

And I'm still sort of stinging the reporters of the stable. First time. That's what we're gonna do.

Unknown 16:38

Can I do this in that file? Yeah. Yes, but you'll should be uh

Unknown 16:59

Yeah. Okay.

Andrew Messman 17:13

is now in session with the all of the carry over presiding.

Judge Castillo 17:17

Please be seated. Welcome to the Court of Appeal. I'm joined by Justice Castillo to my left and Justice Doe to my right. We're first going to hear the case of the City of Moreno Valley and

Judge Castillo 17:44

Uh the appellant has asked for fifteen minutes and the defendants for ten, five and five. You have to divide your fifteen minutes up. Uh so I guess you can do five, five and five if you wish, unless you designate it otherwise.

Patrick Bobko 18:01

Your Honor it is for uh on Patrick Bob Cr on behalf of Mr. Early, we'd be happy to uh give Ms. Wykoff our five minutes.

Judge Castillo 18:09

All right, thank you. Well, Mr. Morgan, if you'd not your appearance for our tape recording.

Chad Morgan 18:17

Um yes, good morning, your honors. Chad Morgan for relator. You've asked for

Judge Castillo 18:23

fifteen minutes. Would you like to reserve some of that time to respond?

Chad Morgan 18:27

I would, thank you. Three minutes. Three minutes, all right.

Chad Morgan 18:37

May please the court. The compensation for employment exception To the California False Claims Act was not intended To create a loophole. that would allow public employees to steal from the taxpayers. And that's the crux of what's alleged here. The false claim at issue in this case Is not the terms of the agreement? Or even The possibility that an agreement might have been approved in secret. If it was approved. The false claim is the allegation that the agreement was not approved at all. In the city of Merino Valley and in cities throughout the state. A city manager's compensation must be approved by the city council. A vote of the city council as a whole. And when any contract that requires city council approval is not approved by the city council, it's void.

Chad Morgan 19:42

And that's where we get into the false claim at issue in this case. is that defendants are alleged To have conspired together put their signatures on a document. And submit it to city staff for approval. as if the city council had approved it. That's not compensation for employment and the the exception is not that broad. In the trial court. In sustaining the demurs without leave to amend Considering only that issue. erred because it misconstrued the statutory language. The statutory language applies the exception only when it is compensation for employment. As stated Compensation for employment is not theft.