Adam Schoenfeld

So you're, you're still seeing it bounce around, but we're, we're always keeping it under that sort of, I want to keep it under 10 and 10 month payback.

Oh man.

I, you know, I don't think about LTV and SAS.

I just look at the CAC ratio and the, and the, and the payback period.

Cause I think when you start doing LTV on a half a percent of churn on an early cohort, it's like your LTV is a hundred years or something.

Right.

And so you just get this weird equation.

So I really just think about, you know, I think about those components, the renewal rate and the CAC and then the CAC payback and the ACV growing obviously is important, but I don't really think LTV.

Uh, no.

So we, we look at it as, as renewal rates, since we're doing annual deals, we have a few legacy.

I think we have three month to month payers left from the old days, but you know, everything now is on an annual deal.

So I look at renewal rates.

Um, I pulled this up cause I knew you'd ask, but our, so our, uh,

If I just look at everybody who's renewed over the last 18 months, we have a 99.5% dollar gross renewal rate.

But Nathan, it's like these early cohorts, you need to be that high.

Like these are your early adopters, the people who are like loving your product, they're willing to take a chance on you.

So I don't know that's indicative of actually where... That's net dollar retention?

No, that's gross.

That is gross, okay.

Net's like 135.