Adam Tooze

This is one thing that Putin and Xi Jinping agree on, is that the collapse of the Soviet Union between 89 and 91, I thought, this is the center of all of their thinking.

For the Chinese, of course, 89 means not just South Africa and the Berlin Wall, but Tiananmen Square.

But would a disintegration of Europe lead Russia away from China?

It would certainly make Russia less dependent on China and it would open up an incredibly wide field of influence in Europe.

But I don't think there's any reason to think it would squarely... Why would they?

They've just won.

Why would they give something up?

And if energy is the hard core of the Russian regime,

Both oil, which is globally fungible, and gas, which has to be piped in the main for efficiency.

China's the decisive variable in your demand equation, right?

India is never going to be a China.

China is the be all and end all.

They've been desperately trying to get a big pipeline deal with the Chinese done.

they've somehow maybe got there, they are not going to back away from that.

So I think the idea that you break Europe so as to win, I mean, it has amazing logic, but I don't think it would work.

My modest suggestion is, I think it probably might not work out like that.

Plus, why is it strategic territory?

Because of climate change, which isn't happening.

Hey, John, we're making this show.

If you want to answer that question, try making this show in mainland China.