Alan Tan

I mean...

the outcomes are no different, right?

Like the five-year survival, whether you have reticulocystectomy after neoadjuvant chemotherapy versus trimodal therapy are roughly similar.

No, I agree.

Like 5-F-Humidomycin or biweekly super low-dose gemcitabine or weekly cisplatin, these are not great systemic agents on their own.

They're radiosensitizers.

But I do agree, like stage 2 bladder cancer,

in general might be a systemic disease, but maybe there's like a third of it that actually is not a systemic disease.

And we'll get into this more later.

I really think selecting with the right biomarkers like ctDNA, if there was a trial called Sunrise 2,

which compared that pretzel device TAR-200 with citrullamab compared to bladder preservation with trimodality therapy, and it didn't meet this viral endpoint.

But I think if they actually would have selected the patients that were CTDA negative, I think perhaps if they did look at this

retrospectively, maybe it actually might've been at least a non-inferior trial.

So, but speaking of more novel approaches, let's talk about, I think three of us were all at ESMO in Berlin this year and super exciting consecutive years, right?

EV302 in Madrid, and then now this.

So Brad, why don't you take us through Keynote 905 or EV303?

Yeah, good points you guys both bring up.

Like, I look forward to Volga for two reasons.

One, Volga looks at the contribution of EV plus Dervolamab, right?

Plus Tremolumab.