Alastair Campbell

Well, I have always been clear about my values.

I think Kemi's setting out the values of the Conservative Party.

And we are defining our values through what we do and what we say rather than defining our values...

in opposition to, to something else.

And that's, and I think, and the reason I, the reason I make that distinction is because I do, I do think there is a real danger that you can be led around by the nose, like a, like a show bull in a, in agricultural show by circumstances beyond your control.

And you're just constantly responding to other people,

people's positions on stuff and and you're not ever really defining yourself and i think there's a there's a danger to that and i think this is this is one of the things that we got we see now with the labour party in government the labour party in the lead up to last general election defined itself exclusively about as not being the conservatives and that's fine until they became the government and

They had no anchor.

They've been blown around all over the place.

So that's why you have the perverse circumstance of Labour backbenchers having the whip withdrawn for voting to increase benefits.

And fast forward 12 months, and the Prime Minister and the Chancellor...

lauding the fact they've increased the benefits bill, which they removed the whip from Labour MPs.

So a complete U-turn on- A point I made at the time.

Absolutely, but the point is- Because I can call them all out.

Because the question I asked myself was, how does nonsense like that happen?

And it happens because the Labour Party at the moment

is completely unanchored because it defined itself as being not the Tories rather than being the Labour Party.

And I think it's a massive error to repeat that mistake.

And that's why I think it's so important that we as a party...

the Conservative Party, and Kemi personally as a leader, create a self-definition anchored in our values, not just as a response to someone else.