Alex Honnold

It basically just makes me tired without, without the right kind of gains.

It'd be like somebody, it'd be like an elite runner, just jogging for miles and miles every day.

And you're kind of like, that's not going to make you, it's not going to,

improve your marathon time if you're already like an elite runner.

It might be fun, but it's just not going to, like, move the needle for you.

Well, I mean, no, I was always challenging myself.

Like, basically, I was optimizing for, like, what's the next thing I can do that pushes me a little bit.

But you weren't optimizing for how to get rich or... Well, then I would have gotten a job.

If I was optimizing for getting rich, I would have freaking finished my college degree and gotten a job.

Well, it's because, I mean, I think, I'm sure you know this, but I'm in the...

The world really – it's like a winner-take-all economy type deal.

It's like basically if you're the dude that does the thing, all of a sudden your earnings go insane.

But until you become the dude that does the thing, if you're like the best magician or the best comedian or the best whatever, then all of a sudden you make an insane amount of money.

But when you're just like one of many struggling comedians, you're struggling.

And so I think for me as a climber, you're sort of like, oh, I'm just a dude living in my van climbing.

But then at a certain point, I'm like the dude that – I'm like, oh, you're that guy that climbs without the rope.

And you're like, oh, yeah, cool.

And then all of a sudden your earnings are like –

Was this a difficult period of your life, this 18 to 30?

Well, obviously it was like, you know, I was like trying to juggle, like I wanted to get a girlfriend.