Alex Wagner

I mean, I actually think that's the thing. I was talking to Marta Pardavi, who is an amazing civil rights, civil liberties lawyer. And she said, actually, in 2015, Orban was really successfully able to scapegoat the migrant population, the European refugee crisis.

I mean, I actually think that's the thing. I was talking to Marta Pardavi, who is an amazing civil rights, civil liberties lawyer. And she said, actually, in 2015, Orban was really successfully able to scapegoat the migrant population, the European refugee crisis.

She said, we thought because Hungary has this history of being a place for refugees and immigrants that there would be more pushback, but there wasn't. He was really successfully able, I mean, in similar ways to Donald Trump, right?

She said, we thought because Hungary has this history of being a place for refugees and immigrants that there would be more pushback, but there wasn't. He was really successfully able, I mean, in similar ways to Donald Trump, right?

She said, we thought because Hungary has this history of being a place for refugees and immigrants that there would be more pushback, but there wasn't. He was really successfully able, I mean, in similar ways to Donald Trump, right?

But the pride thing, because I think the opposition movement has learned something in the interim, they framed it not just as an attack on that community, but as this bigger question of like, can we have protests? Can we speak out? We are under threat of prosecution for just being here.

But the pride thing, because I think the opposition movement has learned something in the interim, they framed it not just as an attack on that community, but as this bigger question of like, can we have protests? Can we speak out? We are under threat of prosecution for just being here.

But the pride thing, because I think the opposition movement has learned something in the interim, they framed it not just as an attack on that community, but as this bigger question of like, can we have protests? Can we speak out? We are under threat of prosecution for just being here.

Because Orban has been so punitive in his attack here, they see this as a much bigger affront to basic tenets of democracy that Hungary purportedly stands for. And so in a way, surprising, I think, both of us, you know, pride has become more of a galvanizing issue, in part because they don't think of it just as pride. They think of it as like the sort of seminal attack on basic tenets of freedom.

Because Orban has been so punitive in his attack here, they see this as a much bigger affront to basic tenets of democracy that Hungary purportedly stands for. And so in a way, surprising, I think, both of us, you know, pride has become more of a galvanizing issue, in part because they don't think of it just as pride. They think of it as like the sort of seminal attack on basic tenets of freedom.

Because Orban has been so punitive in his attack here, they see this as a much bigger affront to basic tenets of democracy that Hungary purportedly stands for. And so in a way, surprising, I think, both of us, you know, pride has become more of a galvanizing issue, in part because they don't think of it just as pride. They think of it as like the sort of seminal attack on basic tenets of freedom.

Yeah. So, I mean, there's something to learn there, I think, in the U.S. as well, right? How do we frame these issues so that it doesn't feel like, you know, the libs are too woke, but it's like, no, no, an attack on one is an attack on all.

Yeah. So, I mean, there's something to learn there, I think, in the U.S. as well, right? How do we frame these issues so that it doesn't feel like, you know, the libs are too woke, but it's like, no, no, an attack on one is an attack on all.

Yeah. So, I mean, there's something to learn there, I think, in the U.S. as well, right? How do we frame these issues so that it doesn't feel like, you know, the libs are too woke, but it's like, no, no, an attack on one is an attack on all.

Over and over again, that has to be the line. It has to be a broader context. And Martin Tomposh, that opposition player that I spoke to, was like, the Democrats have made this stuff too narrow and too siloed. It needs to be bigger. It needs to be something that people feel brought into, even if they have no particular stake in the fight.

Over and over again, that has to be the line. It has to be a broader context. And Martin Tomposh, that opposition player that I spoke to, was like, the Democrats have made this stuff too narrow and too siloed. It needs to be bigger. It needs to be something that people feel brought into, even if they have no particular stake in the fight.

Over and over again, that has to be the line. It has to be a broader context. And Martin Tomposh, that opposition player that I spoke to, was like, the Democrats have made this stuff too narrow and too siloed. It needs to be bigger. It needs to be something that people feel brought into, even if they have no particular stake in the fight.

I gotta say, and I'm obviously, I'm a little bit biased in terms of my interests, but the way Orban consolidated the media and cracked down on the fourth estate is, first of all, he was so successful, right? He basically had his friends and allies buy up all the newspapers, all the media outlets, all the editorial outlets that were once, you know, real robust journalistic endeavors.

I gotta say, and I'm obviously, I'm a little bit biased in terms of my interests, but the way Orban consolidated the media and cracked down on the fourth estate is, first of all, he was so successful, right? He basically had his friends and allies buy up all the newspapers, all the media outlets, all the editorial outlets that were once, you know, real robust journalistic endeavors.

I gotta say, and I'm obviously, I'm a little bit biased in terms of my interests, but the way Orban consolidated the media and cracked down on the fourth estate is, first of all, he was so successful, right? He basically had his friends and allies buy up all the newspapers, all the media outlets, all the editorial outlets that were once, you know, real robust journalistic endeavors.