Alex Wagner

I'm thinking about, I think there was a moment two weeks ago, it's all a blur, when President Trump was tweeting out about Tylenol causing autism.

And you responded saying, how are there no guardrails?

You also mentioned some things about Democrats, but just focus on the guardrail.

I mean, my reaction was cosine, what?

And I wonder what you think the net effect of like this period, I guess, new era, I'm not sure where we are here, of misinformation and calculated disinformation, like where that leaves us as a society, as someone who's interested in words and the truth and meaning, someone who's a professor and is in the industry of teaching people the truth.

What happens when the truth becomes so atomized or fungible?

Alternative facts are not.

There are no alternative facts.

By the way, just a declaration of principles right there.

When Kellyanne Conway said there are alternative facts, everybody should have been listening a little harder.

Here we are.

Well, at risk of sounding like a fan of the strategy, they're also...

They don't give a shit.

They just say it and they do it.

And I think probably there's a lesson in there as we began this conversation talking about the hand-wringing by some elected Democrats in the context of a shutdown.

It's like, you know, Trump has taught the country that you can be very declarative and very explicit.

Keep caring, but care less about the response.

I'm going to take hope in the idea that Roxane Gay has found something to celebrate in American political life, which is someone taking a big swing out there.

That makes me feel good at the end of the conversation.

These are extraordinary circumstances.