Alisha Wainwright

And can both things be true at the same time?

I also think about, again, from a patient's perspective, a consumer, a user, I did not know until researching this episode that there was a difference in terms of a medical device versus a wellness or mindfulness app.

I honestly thought they were all in the wellness space.

And so as a consumer, I also feel frustrated that I don't even know what my options are.

And for many people in the world, they might have mild symptoms of anxiety or depression.

You might engage with a therapy bot.

But if you have some familiarity with a therapy bot, but you don't have a therapist, and then you experience an extreme mental health crisis or something that needs that crossover,

do you know not to use something you've been accustomed to using?

Do you know what I mean?

I just wonder that people don't necessarily know how to make that distinction when they're going through a crisis themselves.

So there are people like Holly and John, clinicians, policy advisors, regulators, who are working to create shared industry standards that hold developers to account.

But there is another key perspective that needs to be considered.

The users themselves.

Those perspectives are key to creating realistic, practical guidance that meets the needs of those who need those tools the most.

I spoke with Grace Gutera, a lived experience advisor who is working with Holly about her role in the project and why including lived experience perspectives is going to be key to getting this right.

So I'm curious, why do you think it is so important to have people with lived experience involved in the regulation process?

And I love how self-aware Grace was to say that she understands that she might be perceived as a wet blanket.

But I don't know, what would you say to someone who says that regulation might stifle innovation in this space?

I agree.

I think, you know, the technology space is sort of founded on this concept of move fast and break things.