Alisha Wainwright

And I've heard and read that they're fairly safe when you compare them to your average driver.

And I think my initial skepticism of them have gone down as I've seen proof of their reliability.

And I'm just thinking, to your point,

Having that proof of reliability by setting regulations from now is how you can see, and I think it's much easier and visually obvious to regulate a car on the road, right?

But it's a little bit more gray, would you say, to think about how to incorporate regulations now?

Like, for example, with a mindfulness app or with a therapy bot app, what sort of regulations can we put in place to perhaps regulate

stop some of these apps that might actually be dangerous to users.

Yeah, you're leaving, what are they, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

You're just going to say no to the whole enterprise when there could be some really good stuff in there.

John makes a really compelling case for smart, thoughtful regulation.

So how far away are we from having agreed rules of the road?

And what are the people creating these safeguards learning about AI as they pave the way?

I spoke with Holly Kuhl, a former mental health nurse, now the digital health manager at the Medicine and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency, the MHRA.

Holly is leading a Wellcome-funded project that is looking to use regulation and evaluation to make digital mental health technology safer and more effective.

The project has a broad scope looking at digital tools of all kinds, but from her perspective, she does see a particular challenge when it comes to how to regulate those that rely on AI.

Let's hear from her and get John's take.

So I love that Holly's perspective came after Miranda's because they're pretty different.

And I'm wondering if you can speak on it.

You know, Holly, who's tasked with regulating versus Miranda, who's just very optimistic about the direction AI could potentially take us.

How do you reconcile their disconnect?