Alistair Campbell

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Going with you first.

Then, over to you.

I think you'll have a publisher on in the morning.

Roy, it's very interesting what you say about evil and the various categories of evil.

It could be a great book.

We got the question a couple of weeks ago, as you say, and I've been thinking about it.

And I'm assuming that he imagines that it would be Putin.

And certainly Putin, I think, in my defense, I didn't think he was totally evil at the time.

But I also think the truth is, you've gone through with some of the names you've mentioned, that in politics and in government,

You have to shake hands with a lot of people that you wouldn't necessarily want to go on holiday with them.

During the Northern Ireland peace process, I definitely shook hands with quite a lot of people who'd killed people.

I remember once meeting a guy who had been on the IRA Army Council and somebody told me afterwards that he was the guy who really knew...

how to do the bombs and made them and all the rest of it.

So Putin gets close because, of course, the other definition, I think, of political evil, you know, at the moment, President Zelensky is responsible for a lot of deaths of Russians, just as the Russians are responsible for a lot of deaths of Ukrainians.

Putin also does kill some of his own people.

We mentioned Navalny.

Fiona and I were in the car last week.

We were listening to this amazing book, London Falling, by Patrick Radden Keefe.

No, I didn't.