Alistair Campbell

Thank you for bringing Run Up.

And boy, is it something to watch.

And boy, is it something that could literally collapse in the next hour before we put out the podcast.

Or they could still be in place in a year's time.

Right.

It's the thing about these regimes.

The thing about regimes.

I mean, literally all that happens is, and this is why it can happen so quickly.

They can last apparently forever or suddenly at a key moment, as you were describing from that moment with Yeltsin, the soldiers refused to pull the triggers and everything collapses.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Who knows?

But at the moment I'm not, I'm not betting on the hour.

Also, just to warn listeners that because of the media blackout,

it is unbelievably difficult to know what's actually going on on the ground.

There is a real danger that there is an echo chamber, particularly of people outside the country, particularly people who are on the anti-regime side, spinning stories.

It's very difficult to verify.

We know for sure a lot of people have been killed.

We know for sure the regime is evil.

But when it comes to the questions like these defections, I'm very doubtful that we have any real information on that at all that's reliable.