Alistair Campbell

I don't know if you saw the Channel 4 series recently on Tony Blair, but he was interviewed and at one point he said... Made me a bit nostalgic.

He said to me when I was Prime Minister that Nigel Farage will become a hugely consequential political figure and Jeremy Corbyn will lead the Labour Party.

I said, you're away with the fairies.

Both of those things have happened.

And I think I'm not... This is...

I know this because it's in my diaries, though I don't remember it.

But in my diaries, I do record having arguments with Tony about whether we're conscious that there could be a really big downside to globalization.

Because I think I was feeling it in certain places.

Correct.

Yeah.

And so I don't think we got into that.

And so therefore, you have this sense of people...

seeing a world out there that is better than the world that they're living in, the politicians still saying, this is a really great world and you're part of it, but they don't feel part of it.

So I think in Brexit, for example, I think that David Cameron going around saying, if you don't leave, you know, you're going to destroy this great economy.

Yeah, so you've got a sense of people feeling that democracy is not working, the economy is not working, their wages aren't rising, and so forth.

So that's the thing that the populists, I guess, is playing into.

How are they able to do it without...

What I would define and you would define as a kind of a serious policy program.

Is that because people have given up believing that serious policy programs can work?

You, in a way, are a victim of populist politics.