Alistair Campbell

Does France become European nuclear defense?

Does Britain kind of straddle between Europe and the US?

And if so, how does that mean changes that have to be made to our systems?

Okay.

And how well is that going?

Look, if you look at the Ukraine war and how that has been handled, and I think what's happening at the moment is the European leaders who recognize that they alone cannot necessarily, particularly given their economic and political circumstances, run the whole fight.

So they need America.

to be part of it, particularly in relation to intelligence and the stuff that Ukraine cannot do on its own and cannot do without.

So what the European leaders have been doing, they've been doing a little bit of the Rota strategy.

to keep them on board, but at the same time, building up their own defenses and then saying, we're only doing that because Trump bullied us into doing it.

Okay.

I think they've all worked out.

They actually need to do it.

What Mark Carney, I think, has done, and this is what leadership is about, in my view, he has signaled, he used the phrase, this is a rupture, not a transition.

Now, it may be that the rupture post-Trump or if Trump, you know, departs the mortal coil, it may be that the rupture is not permanent.

But I think the mindset that Carney is trying to give these other leaders is that we cannot stop pretending there is any way we're going back to the status quo, aren't we?

And I think he's right about that.

So they do have to build up defence, and they do have to improve their relations.

You say Europe's a basket case.

Europe is not as strong and as powerful as maybe it could be.