Alistair Campbell

It's not as economically powerful as it could be.

Its defence and security isn't as powerful as it could be.

But they could still get there.

And they're only going to get there, in my view, if they actually do have the mindset that says, this is a rupture, not a transition.

All they were saying, I'll tell you the thing that I kept hearing is, look, let's stop pretending that China can remotely fill the gap that we've had with America.

Nobody's saying that.

Mark Carney didn't say that.

Keir Starmer's not saying that.

He's off to China today.

And at a time when I think it's the Telegraph is reporting this story that the Chinese spy on number 10 and blah, blah, blah.

What's new?

So I just think that we're not saying that.

What we are saying, I'm saying two things.

One, the only other body in the world right now that might get even remotely close to American power and Chinese power is Europe.

That's the European Union plus.

And I think part of this Mark Carney post-Trump world...

we should be thinking about accelerating enlargement rather than slowing it down.

We should maybe be thinking about having different sorts of associations with the European Union for those countries that aren't fully ready.

But Europe is the only one that can remotely embrace that power.

And from the United Kingdom's point of view, that means we have to get closer and we have to undo the damage of Brexit as fast as we can.