Andrea Dunlop

So it was like there wasn't a question about what she'd done.

And she was, oh, I'm so remorseful.

And I just would do anything to get back with my family.

And, you know, and so I was like, well, I know, like, you know.

Mark Feldman and Mary Sander, top experts in the world.

Like, if you want that help, oh, absolutely.

And, you know, I really, I'm not afraid of hard work.

And do you think I ever heard from her again?

Like, no, of course not.

Because they don't want help.

And so I think I've moved on from that feeling.

But certainly, like, in terms of now, if one of them surprises me along the way,

off we go i would absolutely help seriously how wonderful would that be i mean yeah and i keep an open mind for that sometime happening and i think the more the more likely and possibly productive thing that could come of that in terms of helping the perpetrators is that if it was caught much earlier and they had not done the things that they've done i mean i think the people i cover on the show are are in as deep as you can go so i think that would be a

But I also, like, I just want to reflect to you, too, of, like, what I've seen as the real public usefulness of not treating people like monsters is that I think, you know, and as we're sort of expanding the show right now and looking at these other cases that are abuse cases that are not munchausen by proxy and that are parents that have said they've been falsely accused by doctors of abusive head trauma and broken bones and this kind of much more

scientifically straightforward cases of abuse.

And I ended up having a lengthy conversation with one of them.

And I think that when we make it about people being monsters, we totally flatten that

person and we're not going to recognize what abuse actually is because the reality is and especially once you sort of get out i know munchausen by proxy perpetrators are a specific breed for sure but like when you sort of widen the scope to like all people who abuse children um they're not monsters who are completely unlike the rest of us they're human beings who are committing horrible acts right

And in many cases, there's a whole bunch of things that led up to them committing that horrible act that could have been prevented along the way.

And if we start putting them in these buckets of like, this person's a monster and just no matter what you did, they were going to do this horrible thing.