Andrew Jarecki

And I was there with this sort of elderly woman that that was like a deputy commissioner, I think, in North Carolina and the prison system, Virginia Ginny.

And I loved her.

She was so smart.

And the first thing they do is they bring you to a concentration camp.

So they bring you to Sachsenhausen.

before they take you to the prisons to see how the prisons are run.

And we're standing there in this concentration camp with the guide.

And the woman says, well, this is where they would bring in the people on the trains.

And then they would take them out.

And then this is where they would shave their heads.

And then they would strip them down and they would spray them with fire hoses and water.

And then they would put powder, disinfectant powder on them.

They would take away all of their, you know, any kind of distinguishing marks that put them all in the same outfit.

And they would give them a number instead of their name.

They would be, you know, and everybody started looking at it like very disturbed.

And Ginny leans over to me and she says, you know, Andrew, we do every one of those things in our prisons today.

And you realize that this dehumanization, this homogenization, this like making everybody look the same is part of just desensitizing us to what we're going to do to those people because they just look like bad people because that's what happens when you shave your head and you're pale and you have the same outfit and you look like a convict.

Yeah, you can't.

But I think to the extent to which we could get everybody

which only is gonna happen in little bits and little areas where we can make an impact, but we're trying to say, well, look, it shouldn't be that everybody who says that we shouldn't be running our prison industrial complex the way we are is soft on crime.