Andrew Jarecki

It's okay to be tough on crime.

It's okay to recognize that some people need to be separated out from society.

But if you – if it becomes so polarized, then you get the progressive DA who – there are some very smart ones and then you get some who are just saying, well, we just should abolish prisons and therefore we don't need any of this and that scares everybody.

And probably doesn't lead to any level because we all want public safety.

Like everybody wants to be serious about public safety.

That's different than being tough on crime.

Yes.

Or there's money in it, but nobody really wants to do the work to figure out that.

There's money in it, but you can't make that money.

Yeah.

I mean, if you try to make the – if the ultimate adjudicator of everything is whether it is turning a profit, you sort of race to the bottom, right?

Everybody sort of – nobody really wants to do anything smart.

They just want to do things that enable them to get the most money the quickest.

But ultimately, right now –

Spending $116 billion a year on our prison system.

You know, we've got 5% of the world's population.

We've got 20, 25% of the world's prisoners.

Crazy.

Like this whole thing.

Fucking wild.