Andrew Marantz

And I gave the spiel that journalists always give, which is, if you're an anonymous source, I will go to the mat to protect you. We are willing to go to jail to protect our sources. And when those words came out of my mouth, I said, How willing to go to jail am I, actually? That was the first time I'd had to think about that.

And I gave the spiel that journalists always give, which is, if you're an anonymous source, I will go to the mat to protect you. We are willing to go to jail to protect our sources. And when those words came out of my mouth, I said, How willing to go to jail am I, actually? That was the first time I'd had to think about that.

So I don't think I'm going to jail anytime soon, but the fact that I had to think twice about it. I agree with this. I have the same experience.

So I don't think I'm going to jail anytime soon, but the fact that I had to think twice about it. I agree with this. I have the same experience.

Am I going to get through?

Am I going to get through?

Well, and so I think we can agree that the tariffs were a bad idea and that they will have a political cost and that generally people don't like it when you tank the economy and that that might cause them to lose the midterms. And by the way, generally speaking, you always lose the midterms when you're in the White House. But by more, by more. By more.

Well, and so I think we can agree that the tariffs were a bad idea and that they will have a political cost and that generally people don't like it when you tank the economy and that that might cause them to lose the midterms. And by the way, generally speaking, you always lose the midterms when you're in the White House. But by more, by more. By more.

But then the question is really, what do we mean by losing? If they lose the midterms and if Trump doesn't get everything he wants, right? If Trump doesn't get to be king for life and he doesn't get to hand the scepter and crown to Don Jr. and he doesn't get his face on Mount Rushmore, is that losing? Because I would argue that

But then the question is really, what do we mean by losing? If they lose the midterms and if Trump doesn't get everything he wants, right? If Trump doesn't get to be king for life and he doesn't get to hand the scepter and crown to Don Jr. and he doesn't get his face on Mount Rushmore, is that losing? Because I would argue that

they've already not lost in the sense that, okay, a couple of the students that they tried to put in jail have been freed. Mahmoud Khalil is still last I checked in prison. I don't mean last I checked glibly. I mean, like, I checked yesterday and I don't know what happened today. I don't think, on the flip side, that one should see as much alarm and hair on fire either everywhere you look. But...

they've already not lost in the sense that, okay, a couple of the students that they tried to put in jail have been freed. Mahmoud Khalil is still last I checked in prison. I don't mean last I checked glibly. I mean, like, I checked yesterday and I don't know what happened today. I don't think, on the flip side, that one should see as much alarm and hair on fire either everywhere you look. But...

There's a little bit of goalpost shifting that I worry about where we'll say, well, what if something really scary happens like defying the Supreme Court? And then we all watch on live TV as they sit in the Oval Office and defy the Supreme Court. And we go, maybe in the future, something scary will happen. Like, I don't know how much more. So I think that's right.

There's a little bit of goalpost shifting that I worry about where we'll say, well, what if something really scary happens like defying the Supreme Court? And then we all watch on live TV as they sit in the Oval Office and defy the Supreme Court. And we go, maybe in the future, something scary will happen. Like, I don't know how much more. So I think that's right.

So I totally agree that you don't want to. I think... don't obey in advance includes don't treat him like a dictator before he's a dictator. And I think that's very important. And it is also what I worry about when we talk about having crossed a bright line. That's why I push back on the permanence of the death metaphor.

So I totally agree that you don't want to. I think... don't obey in advance includes don't treat him like a dictator before he's a dictator. And I think that's very important. And it is also what I worry about when we talk about having crossed a bright line. That's why I push back on the permanence of the death metaphor.

If we're talking about erosion or rebuilding, then it starts to be a little more clear. So I actually... If you talk about they lose the midterms or the next president is a Democrat, you say they can instantly rebuild. It's hard for me to see how we just go back to normal from here.

If we're talking about erosion or rebuilding, then it starts to be a little more clear. So I actually... If you talk about they lose the midterms or the next president is a Democrat, you say they can instantly rebuild. It's hard for me to see how we just go back to normal from here.

Part of what I worry about and part of why I worry that we're not plainly saying what's in front of us is the way in which the Trumpist regime has already gotten some of what it wants in informal ways. Precisely because it's not agreeing to the consensus of, you know, it feels very vaporous to talk about norms and institutions.

Part of what I worry about and part of why I worry that we're not plainly saying what's in front of us is the way in which the Trumpist regime has already gotten some of what it wants in informal ways. Precisely because it's not agreeing to the consensus of, you know, it feels very vaporous to talk about norms and institutions.