Andrew Ross Sorkin

and generally the sort of populist attitude towards immigration in America and Europe.

and generally the sort of populist attitude towards immigration in America and Europe.

So the Catholic Church does not have a formal dogmatic stance on here's how many immigrants a just society has to admit. And, you know, here's how many you're allowed to deport or anything like that. Right. But then in practice, if you look at the rhetoric of Catholic bishops, the positions taken by Pope Francis and so on.

So the Catholic Church does not have a formal dogmatic stance on here's how many immigrants a just society has to admit. And, you know, here's how many you're allowed to deport or anything like that. Right. But then in practice, if you look at the rhetoric of Catholic bishops, the positions taken by Pope Francis and so on.

The church leans, I think, pretty clearly in a more liberal direction on this issue and tends to be more critical of politicians who emphasize border security, more critical of politicians who emphasize deportations, and tends to stress pretty intensely the rights and dignity of migrants and their right to fair treatment. So even though there isn't, again, a sort of absolute position on this,

The church leans, I think, pretty clearly in a more liberal direction on this issue and tends to be more critical of politicians who emphasize border security, more critical of politicians who emphasize deportations, and tends to stress pretty intensely the rights and dignity of migrants and their right to fair treatment. So even though there isn't, again, a sort of absolute position on this,

There is a running tension as immigration has become this flashpoint in the Western world between where conservative politicians are, where populist politicians are, and where a lot of leaders of the church tend to be.

There is a running tension as immigration has become this flashpoint in the Western world between where conservative politicians are, where populist politicians are, and where a lot of leaders of the church tend to be.

So that's where we started with the vice president's own Catholicism and then the always interesting and difficult relationship between American Catholic politicians and popes and the teachings of the church.

So that's where we started with the vice president's own Catholicism and then the always interesting and difficult relationship between American Catholic politicians and popes and the teachings of the church.

Of course. As I recall.

Of course. As I recall.

Right. And we have a back and forth about this numbers specifically, but it is absolutely the case that an unprecedented number of illegal immigrants did enter the U.S. under the Biden administration that the Trump administration inherited. And it did run, I think, very explicitly on a promise to, you know,

Right. And we have a back and forth about this numbers specifically, but it is absolutely the case that an unprecedented number of illegal immigrants did enter the U.S. under the Biden administration that the Trump administration inherited. And it did run, I think, very explicitly on a promise to, you know,

deport a substantial number of those new arrivals and has, I think, can reasonably say it has a political mandate to do so. So the question is, how?

deport a substantial number of those new arrivals and has, I think, can reasonably say it has a political mandate to do so. So the question is, how?

But the due process— Under a legislative—to be clear, this is based on legislation, like the judges who are making these decisions— are not inventing this standard. It is a legislative standard.

But the due process— Under a legislative—to be clear, this is based on legislation, like the judges who are making these decisions— are not inventing this standard. It is a legislative standard.

I think the context for the vice president's argument is sort of twofold.

I think the context for the vice president's argument is sort of twofold.