Andrew Ross Sorkin

One, there is a longstanding perspective in American conservatism that judges and Supreme Court justices are too quick to interfere in democratic politics to sort of impose their interpretations of the Constitution that are themselves quite debatable, rather than deferring to the executive and legislative branches, which do, in fact, represent public opinion more directly than the judiciary does.

One, there is a longstanding perspective in American conservatism that judges and Supreme Court justices are too quick to interfere in democratic politics to sort of impose their interpretations of the Constitution that are themselves quite debatable, rather than deferring to the executive and legislative branches, which do, in fact, represent public opinion more directly than the judiciary does.

Absolutely. And then the other backdrop to this is that over a long period of time, especially in Western Europe, you have had this really striking dynamic where public opinion is very skeptical and critical of mass immigration. And yet, in some cases, the judiciary, in some cases, the bureaucracy, in some cases, prime ministers and other leaders have found ways to basically ignore

Absolutely. And then the other backdrop to this is that over a long period of time, especially in Western Europe, you have had this really striking dynamic where public opinion is very skeptical and critical of mass immigration. And yet, in some cases, the judiciary, in some cases, the bureaucracy, in some cases, prime ministers and other leaders have found ways to basically ignore

public sentiment. And much of European politics has been defined by voters trying to vote against mass immigration, not getting the policy they want, and then moving towards further right and populist parties like Marine Le Pen's national rally in France, like the alternative for Deutschland in Germany. Vance is drawing on

public sentiment. And much of European politics has been defined by voters trying to vote against mass immigration, not getting the policy they want, and then moving towards further right and populist parties like Marine Le Pen's national rally in France, like the alternative for Deutschland in Germany. Vance is drawing on

the perspectives of European politics, this sense that the public has a desire and elites are always trying to thwart it. And judges throwing up roadblocks to the Trump administration doing deportations are part of that tradition. So there are two obvious ways that an administration frustrated by the pace of deportations could try and address those frustrations.

the perspectives of European politics, this sense that the public has a desire and elites are always trying to thwart it. And judges throwing up roadblocks to the Trump administration doing deportations are part of that tradition. So there are two obvious ways that an administration frustrated by the pace of deportations could try and address those frustrations.

One is to try and directly change the law that governs due process for illegal immigrants. Or you could look at judicial interpretations of that law that you think have been too favorable. to illegal immigrants and present test cases to the Supreme Court, a Supreme Court that is friendly to executive power, and try and get those interpretations changed.

One is to try and directly change the law that governs due process for illegal immigrants. Or you could look at judicial interpretations of that law that you think have been too favorable. to illegal immigrants and present test cases to the Supreme Court, a Supreme Court that is friendly to executive power, and try and get those interpretations changed.

I think the administration is doing some version of both of those things, but then they also have a third track that they're pursuing.

I think the administration is doing some version of both of those things, but then they also have a third track that they're pursuing.

So the third option, this has obviously been the zone of maximal controversy, right? under Trump. The idea that you can claim some sort of wartime power that lets you deport illegal immigrants either without any due process at all or with a kind of extremely minimal due process.

So the third option, this has obviously been the zone of maximal controversy, right? under Trump. The idea that you can claim some sort of wartime power that lets you deport illegal immigrants either without any due process at all or with a kind of extremely minimal due process.

So it's sort of like the Trump administration is looking for a kind of wartime powers hack for this larger challenge of not having the legal infrastructure necessary for mass deportation. It's basically like we have this big challenge, but what if there was one neat trick that

So it's sort of like the Trump administration is looking for a kind of wartime powers hack for this larger challenge of not having the legal infrastructure necessary for mass deportation. It's basically like we have this big challenge, but what if there was one neat trick that

in a law from the 1790s that would let us avoid having to go through all the trouble of passing new legislation or establishing new Supreme Court precedents. So I asked him about that.

in a law from the 1790s that would let us avoid having to go through all the trouble of passing new legislation or establishing new Supreme Court precedents. So I asked him about that.

And this is what I'm asking about. The legal authorities that you guys have tried to use have been – The particular one is the Alien Enemies Act, which is an extremely aggressive claim about wartime powers that, as far as I can tell, even under the most aggressive interpretation, is likely to apply only to an incredibly small number of migrants.

And this is what I'm asking about. The legal authorities that you guys have tried to use have been – The particular one is the Alien Enemies Act, which is an extremely aggressive claim about wartime powers that, as far as I can tell, even under the most aggressive interpretation, is likely to apply only to an incredibly small number of migrants.