Andrew Ross Sorkin

The claim is not actually that 5 million migrants here illegally are in a state of war against the United States. Or is that the claim?

The claim is not actually that 5 million migrants here illegally are in a state of war against the United States. Or is that the claim?

We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that.

We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that.

Right. Shouldn't this sort of barbaric medieval landscape that you're describing show up in violent crime statistics?

Right. Shouldn't this sort of barbaric medieval landscape that you're describing show up in violent crime statistics?

Well, as you heard, he says communities along the southern border. I suspect he also has in mind claims about, say, gang activity in an apartment complex in Aurora, Colorado. There have been a number of anecdotal cases. But as I said to him, I think, you know, these are anecdotes. They're not statistical evidence. And as he's describing this case,

Well, as you heard, he says communities along the southern border. I suspect he also has in mind claims about, say, gang activity in an apartment complex in Aurora, Colorado. There have been a number of anecdotal cases. But as I said to him, I think, you know, these are anecdotes. They're not statistical evidence. And as he's describing this case,

reaching back and repurposing old laws for the purpose of deportations, I ask him to talk about or think about some of the moral risks involved in that. Well, so what you're describing is, again, you and I both lived through the Bush presidency, right?

reaching back and repurposing old laws for the purpose of deportations, I ask him to talk about or think about some of the moral risks involved in that. Well, so what you're describing is, again, you and I both lived through the Bush presidency, right?

And there are elements of what you might call a kind of war on terror mentality that you're taking vis-a-vis the cartels or people associated with the cartels or people allegedly associated with gangs and cartels that seems to me similar to the approach taken to anyone associated with Islamic terrorism and so on in the aftermath of September 11th.

And there are elements of what you might call a kind of war on terror mentality that you're taking vis-a-vis the cartels or people associated with the cartels or people allegedly associated with gangs and cartels that seems to me similar to the approach taken to anyone associated with Islamic terrorism and so on in the aftermath of September 11th.

And again, you remember and I remember that in more than a few cases, right, this ended up with situations where the U.S. was taking people into custody and remanding them to black sites and so on, who turned out, unsurprisingly, not to be number one al-Qaeda terrorists, right?

And again, you remember and I remember that in more than a few cases, right, this ended up with situations where the U.S. was taking people into custody and remanding them to black sites and so on, who turned out, unsurprisingly, not to be number one al-Qaeda terrorists, right?

And to the extent that it is possible, and it is somewhat difficult for the media to do this, but to the extent that it's possible for the media to examine this, the kind of figures and individuals that you guys have been trying to essentially remand to prison in El Salvador, right? Without, you know, extensive legal process.

And to the extent that it is possible, and it is somewhat difficult for the media to do this, but to the extent that it's possible for the media to examine this, the kind of figures and individuals that you guys have been trying to essentially remand to prison in El Salvador, right? Without, you know, extensive legal process.

It just seems like this system is ripe for war on terror style abuses, where you are going to be sending people to prison in El Salvador that advertises itself as a terrible place and And one, some of those people are probably going to be innocent.

It just seems like this system is ripe for war on terror style abuses, where you are going to be sending people to prison in El Salvador that advertises itself as a terrible place and And one, some of those people are probably going to be innocent.

Two, some of them are going to be people who have committed a crime, who have some kind of gang affiliation, but who under normal American law, non-wartime law, would end up going to jail for six months or a year or something. And again, they're going to disappear potentially into a system for a decade or more or something like that.

Two, some of them are going to be people who have committed a crime, who have some kind of gang affiliation, but who under normal American law, non-wartime law, would end up going to jail for six months or a year or something. And again, they're going to disappear potentially into a system for a decade or more or something like that.